Poker-AI.org

Poker AI and Botting Discussion Forum
It is currently Mon Nov 13, 2023 2:58 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 42 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:34 am 
Offline
Veteran Member

Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:43 am
Posts: 267
Stars running in a VM, all Informations are screen scraped. I only use an advisor, not a bot, so I will have unsupicious input. Are there ways to detect this, or is it relativelly safe?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:43 am 
Offline
Veteran Member

Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:39 am
Posts: 437
They can look at your play/strategy. If it's too stable (i.e. it doesn't change/adapt enough) they can flag your account.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:26 am 
Offline
Veteran Member

Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:43 am
Posts: 267
My strategy will depend a lot on oponent stats, this alone should give me some variation and since I am still playing myself, I will probably ignore a few decisions the program makes. I think this wont be a problem.

Is there any way Stars can scan my processes from a VM? Or make a screenshot of my main system? I have read, that stars has a very tight security, so I am kinda paranoid.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:43 am 
Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:14 pm
Posts: 45
Pokerstars can't get access to main machine from VM, but they can find out that client is run in a VM.
This isn't a huge flag on its own, but will work against you if you have other tells like 24/7 play.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:24 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:24 pm
Posts: 230
First line of defense even with a good setup is play style and schedule. If you play 24/7 it's not the site that you need to worry about but other players reporting you. Once that happens they look into your account with more detail and you are most likely screwed.

_________________
Cheers.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:30 pm 
Offline
Veteran Member

Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:39 am
Posts: 437
What Coffee said. They don't need a smoking gun to shut your account down and confiscate your funds, just reasonable suspicion.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:36 pm 
Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:09 pm
Posts: 25
I think your setup is basically safe. As long as you are handling the output yourself stars wont have any chance to recognize your scanning methods through the vm. additionally, I dont think that it is reason enough to flag you for not tilting and playing your style all the time through. however, you should maybe randomize your actions and react to your opponent


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:06 pm 
Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:55 pm
Posts: 10
I saw something in pokerstars terms, that they must have the right to scan you computer application list. I've heard something that they filter various executables by the sum of the users using a specific executable.

I program in java.. but havent found my application in task manager processes. The only thing that appears is the javaw.exe. Surely they could not flag me because of that.

+ I've also seen people reporting about too stable stats, there were some threads about it in 2p2
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/153/h ... r-1305478/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:47 pm 
Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:14 pm
Posts: 45
is it possible to get proccess .exe signature or checksum or something like that?
i.e. if I rename bring.exe to skype.exe, will they know it's not skype?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:20 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:24 pm
Posts: 216
Not sure if they do it, but its possible. You can easily see which exe file in the file system corresponds to the process. Also, its possible to see which files/ports are opened from the process...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:29 pm 
Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:14 pm
Posts: 45
What about injecting the code into otherwise innocent program (let's keep going with skype), basically taking it over for your needs?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:09 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:24 pm
Posts: 216
I'm not sure how deep they check, but if they want to they could check e.g. the size of the program and compare it to the original size, given its a common tool like skype. But in practice, I can't imaging their analysis would go so far, as its even hard to known programs to get a database of all program versions including the size/hash.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:21 am 
Offline
Veteran Member

Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:39 am
Posts: 437
eugen wrote:
i.e. if I rename bring.exe to skype.exe, will they know it's not skype?

They likely have a hash for bring because it's commonly used for botting. I'd be more concerned about them watching for some of the functions bring performs. i.e. screen captures, opening certain ports, etc. The bottom line is: can your program solve a captcha?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:06 am 
Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:14 pm
Posts: 45
I'm still developing AI, I'm just really paranoid about stealth.
Don't want it all to go to waste because I overlooked some small stupid thing.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:12 am 
Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:09 pm
Posts: 25
Well you can definitly be paranoid when botting on stars!
3 years ago I started my first attempts to bot on stars - busted.
They sent me quite a long email and statement why they froze my account.
They checked my whole computer - now I learned out of my first mistakes.
In case you are intrested, I can see if I still find this old email :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:40 am 
Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:14 pm
Posts: 45
did you ever try again to bot on stars?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:44 am 
Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:09 pm
Posts: 25
i am currently trying to.
since 3 months i am botting on ftp now and yesterday i started bringing it to ps again.
even though im not comfortable with the feeling.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:25 pm 
Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:14 pm
Posts: 45
When you got banned what was your setup? Via VM?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:50 pm 
Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:09 pm
Posts: 25
i cannot remember exactly but I think I did not do a lot to stealth it.
I think I used human mouse movements and maybe a virtual machine even though I'm not sure about that


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:51 pm 
Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:09 pm
Posts: 25
Here you go

Quote:
Hello XXX,

Because we have been unable to reach you by telephone despite several attempts to do so, we will conduct the interview by Email.

We believe that you may have been developing and using a prohibited application in conjunction with your play on PokerStars. To help us make a determination about this, please answer the following questions.

1. Please detail your relationship with player 'Player'. Name the player by full name if you can, and describe how you know the player in detail.

2. Please detail your relationship with player ‘Player2'. Name the player by full name if you can, and describe how you know the player in detail.

3. Before your account shutdown, we noted that you suddenly "stepped down" from your normal high stakes [My preferred game Full Ring] to play lower stakes [My preferred game Heads Up]. What was the impetus for this change in your game selection?

4. You seem to have used two different machines for your play, one machine for high stakes full ring, and a different machine for your low stakes heads up play. Why was this?

5. One of the machines in question, the one used to play the heads up games, was a Virtual Machine. Why did you find it necessary to use a virtual machine for your heads up play, but not your high stakes play?

6. The playing profile for each of the game selections was rather distinctive and consistent, yet they differed from each other. For example, your reaction time in the heads up games was very fast and very consistent, while your full ring game you played slower and with more variance in your action times. Your tables were of varying sizes and positions when you played high stakes, but were meticulously sized and positioned the same way every time for heads up. Can you explain these differences?

7. You stopped playing low stakes heads up Razz on [A nice summer day]. Why did you stop? What happened to the virtual machine you were using after that date?

8. You were observed using several unusual applications, predominantly during your heads up low stakes play. Please explain your reason for the use of each of the following:

TeamViewer
Camtasia Studio
Embarcadero RAD Studio

TeamViewer continued to be used beyond October 12th. Whose machine were you remote-controlling, and/or who was remote-controlling you?

9. Who is [My Real name]? What is the meaning of [2 friends]?

10. The following application was observed on your machine:

c:\users\[blub]\desktop\8.5 - ps\debug\win32\icq.exe

It carried several version numbers, and varied in file size. What is the purpose of this file? Did you supply a copy of this program to any other player? What is the meaning of its name, ICQ? Would you be willing to supply a copy of the executable, and a copy of the source code that we could compile ourselves, in order to verify the purpose of this application?

-> At this point I am sure they copied the files that stupid fckers


11. We conducted several tests to determine if a human was present at the controls while Quicktob.exe was running. These tests would have gone unnoticed by a human player, but would have confused an automated software player, rendering it unable to continue playing. These tests were failed multiple times at low stakes heads up, but passed during high stakes play. Please explain.

Thank you for your cooperation in answering these questions.

Sincerely,



Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 42 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group