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How to test my bot?
https://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2538		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  Seikez [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to test my bot?
Quote:
I'm not a rootkit expert, but as far as I know, if it's done right the poker client has little chance to detect it. Having said that, the more popular route for screen scraping nowadays is just to have the client in VM and control the VM from the host (VM engines have VNC interfaces to do that). This way you're 100% legit, apart from the flag raised by running in the VM.

As mentioned, I have planned on using screen scraping with Bring to get state from the poker client. But I made that choice because the alternatives I could find to screen scraping all seemed so difficult to implement, adapt to new sites and to maintain. But I don't know, maybe screen scraping is outdated and I should really use some other method. What is state of the art today? ;)

Quote:
Detecting is easy, I'd be more concerned about solving them in the limited time available.

When you say detecting is easy, do you mean by using a windows hook or with screen scraping? As I said previously, I haven't started researching this yet, so any info I can get here will be helpful.
Author:  PeppaPig [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to test my bot?
Hi,

I wouldn't plan on running on stars if I was you.

If you spend a few years a developing state of the art setup - then maybe - but even then there is a good chance they will bust you.

There are much easier places.

-PeppaPig
Author:  PolarBear [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to test my bot?
@Seikez

I don't think a solid detection avoidance with regard to screen scraping is doable. If a site wants to detect a screen scraper, they've got a ton of easy way to do that (with manipulating pixels, colors etc.) that you just can't prepare for in advance. So the answer is to either avoid screen scraping altogether (and for example go with writing your own client altogether - way better approach imo since then you don't have to deal with the often buggy and crashy casino software at all) or to stick to sites which don't proactively search for botters.
Author:  Seikez [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to test my bot?
Quote:
and for example go with writing your own client altogether

Oh wow, how about that for a radically different approach from screen scraping! Great idea, might be the ideal solution. But that must mean the encrypted communication protocol between poker client and poker site has to be analyzed and recreated in my bot. You would have to be a real superhacker :ugeek: to do something like that. How do you do it? Please! 8-)

That is something I will definitely have a look at for bot ver2.0, sometime in the distant future. In the mean time, I think I will just follow the advice and avoid PS and other difficult sites.
Author:  PolarBear [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to test my bot?
Seikez wrote:
Quote:
and for example go with writing your own client altogether

Oh wow, how about that for a radically different approach from screen scraping! Great idea, might be the ideal solution. But that must mean the encrypted communication protocol between poker client and poker site has to be analyzed and recreated in my bot. You would have to be a real superhacker :ugeek: to do something like that. How do you do it? Please! 8-)

That is something I will definitely have a look at for bot ver2.0, sometime in the distant future. In the mean time, I think I will just follow the advice and avoid PS and other difficult sites.


They should be using some kind of network protocol, which should be reversable (should be fairly easy if the client is in Java/.NET, since then you can reverse the binary and just see what's going on). On top of that, they'll probably be using SSL, which, as it (the DLL) is on your machine, should be circumventable.
Author:  cantina [ Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to test my bot?
PolarBear wrote:
as it (the DLL) is on your machine, should be circumventable.

That sounds like a short quip for a long/hard process. How do you circumvent SSL?
Author:  PolarBear [ Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to test my bot?
Nasher wrote:
PolarBear wrote:
as it (the DLL) is on your machine, should be circumventable.

That sounds like a short quip for a long/hard process. How do you circumvent SSL?


One idea would be - if they're using a standard third-party DLL for SSL, the lib should be well-documented. You could then create a stub DLL which has the same public interface and which logs all traffic passed to it (before it's encrypted) and then sends it to the original DLL so that it gets encrypted.
Author:  cantina [ Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to test my bot?
Interesting. Wouldn't the change in DLL throw flag with casino, having a different hash tag?
Author:  winnie [ Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to test my bot?
Nasher wrote:
Interesting. Wouldn't the change in DLL throw flag with casino, having a different hash tag?


for sure!
Author:  shalako [ Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to test my bot?
Running bots on PS/FTP is not much of an issue. All of the methods posted above are certainly doable but not the best way imo. The solution is not hard. I did it with limited skills and its been fool proof for the last year and a half. I used the same methods back in the day when Party Poker was king and bot detection first started becoming a problem. I will discuss the methods but not in the public forum. Just think outside of the box as the answer is pretty simple.
Author:  Seikez [ Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to test my bot?
Quote:
I will discuss the methods but not in the public forum.

So, how do I get access to this forum?
Author:  PolarBear [ Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to test my bot?
Nasher wrote:
Interesting. Wouldn't the change in DLL throw flag with casino, having a different hash tag?


During testing/development, yeah - but that's not important (can be done through VPN from a throaway account). Once you've developed your own client, you're controlling which warning are sent home though :)
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