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How to stealth output so that pokersite can't detect it by
http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2930		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Getrdyforthe [ Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  How to stealth output so that pokersite can't detect it by
The problem of stealth outputting with the win32 api is that pokersites can hook the windows api.
So I'm looking for suggestions on how to simulate keyboard+mouse some other way that the pokersite can't detect by hooking some api?

Currently, I think the only way is by using kvm2usb.. I just have no idea how to stealth output otherwise.
But it's expensive to buy another computer and not to mention the $500 price tag of the kvm2usb before you even know if your bot is going to be sucessful.

So yeah, looking for a suggestion on how to stealth output (that truly is stealth) by using only 1 computer or possibly a VM (but I don't think that is stealthy since they can hook the networks api?)
But maybe that would be sufficient stealth on a lot of sites except stars where they'll ban you just for suspicion?
Maybe it's only stars that hook windows api too?

I'm just not sure which sites to target etc.. Did you just pick a method and try it out on a site and when you got caught you changed/adapted the method before opening a new account?
Don't you need a new address to open a new account or how is it done because it's not every day that you relocate..?
Author:  shalako [ Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stealth output so that pokersite can't detect it
There are $15 alternatives to the kvm2usb device so do not waste your money on that.
Author:  spears [ Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stealth output so that pokersite can't detect it
shalako wrote:
There are $15 alternatives to the kvm2usb device so do not waste your money on that.

For example?
Author:  Getrdyforthe [ Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stealth output so that pokersite can't detect it
Spears, you are one of the best posters on this forum.. can you give a try and giving me advice on what to do?

Do you know how to create new poker accounts without getting detected?
(if it really is just that you need a different address and deposit method then is there some smooth way of using different address without having to move in to a new apartment?)

I'm not sure if I want to go the hooking route or the screen scraping route.
Screen scraping is the only option when using kvm2usb but if if you can create new poker accounts without much effort then using just 1 computer and using win32api to simulate mouse+keyboard on any other pokersite than PS/FT? How's security on party or ipoker? do they hook the windows api? Will they ban you if the only thing they got on you is suspicion of botting because of using win32 api to simulate mouse+keyboard?
Author:  shalako [ Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stealth output so that pokersite can't detect it
Quote:
For example?


https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/
Author:  spears [ Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stealth output so that pokersite can't detect it
shalako wrote:
Quote:
For example?


https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/


I'm super impressed by anyone who can do screen capture with a teensy
Author:  spears [ Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stealth output so that pokersite can't detect it
Getrdyforthe wrote:
Spears, you are one of the best posters on this forum.. can you give a try and giving me advice on what to do?

Do you know how to create new poker accounts without getting detected?
(if it really is just that you need a different address and deposit method then is there some smooth way of using different address without having to move in to a new apartment?)

I'm not sure if I want to go the hooking route or the screen scraping route.
Screen scraping is the only option when using kvm2usb but if if you can create new poker accounts without much effort then using just 1 computer and using win32api to simulate mouse+keyboard on any other pokersite than PS/FT? How's security on party or ipoker? do they hook the windows api? Will they ban you if the only thing they got on you is suspicion of botting because of using win32 api to simulate mouse+keyboard?


OK, getting close to my limit of newbie help me questions.

Develop on simulators, or small sites or play money with a replaceable ip address. Only move to stars when you know what you are doing. Use other peoples accounts. Look at open holdem forum.
Author:  shalako [ Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stealth output so that pokersite can't detect it
Quote:
I'm super impressed by anyone who can do screen capture with a teensy


Oh..I dont think it can do that. I thought only about emulating a mouse or a keyboard instead of using a api based SendKey or mouse click etc. It works pretty good for that. I use it and it works perfect for that. So the kvm2usb is able to take a screenshot without the host knowing about it?
Author:  Getrdyforthe [ Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stealth output so that pokersite can't detect it
shalako wrote:
Quote:
I'm super impressed by anyone who can do screen capture with a teensy


Oh..I dont think it can do that. I thought only about emulating a mouse or a keyboard instead of using a api based SendKey or mouse click etc. It works pretty good for that. I use it and it works perfect for that. So the kvm2usb is able to take a screenshot without the host knowing about it?


Oh that's interesting!
How does it work exactly? Do you need 2 computers to use teensy? The pictures of it look strange on the link you gave.
I don't mind if it can't do any scraping because not even pokerstars can detect if you have hooked their client unless you give them your bot so that they can reverse it.
So yeah, if teensy takes care of output for just $15 that's something I'm going to order right away :-)

P.S: Which version of teensy would you recommend buying? I suck at hardware.
Author:  shalako [ Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stealth output so that pokersite can't detect it
How the teensy works is your bot sends keys/mouse info to the teensy and it echos it back to the poker client making it look the like input came from a real device. I am guessing it is probably overkill but its an alternative. It is only one piece of the puzzle and its a minor one I think.
Author:  Getrdyforthe [ Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stealth output so that pokersite can't detect it
shalako wrote:
How the teensy works is your bot sends keys/mouse info to the teensy and it echos it back to the poker client making it look the like input came from a real device. I am guessing it is probably overkill but its an alternative. It is only one piece of the puzzle and its a minor one I think.


Why do you think it's an overkill? Doesn't pokerstars care if they detect you are using the win32 api to send key/mouse info? What about other pokersites?
Using teensy sounds like a very simple and cheap solution to having a true stealth output for your bot.
And hooking takes care of true stealth input.. so "all" that remains of the puzzle is to build the AI for the bot right?
Author:  shalako [ Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stealth output so that pokersite can't detect it
Quote:
Why do you think it's an overkill? Doesn't pokerstars care if they detect you are using the win32 api to send key/mouse info? What about other pokersites?
Using teensy sounds like a very simple and cheap solution to having a true stealth output for your bot.
And hooking takes care of true stealth input.. so "all" that remains of the puzzle is to build the AI for the bot right?


Well for one reason is that many players use hotkey setups. Some are connected to special devices like playstation controllers etc and others are just key bindings. TableNinja is an example of this and its very popular. So what I am getting at here is that quite often SendKeys are coming from api from legitimate users so I dont think they are putting that much emphasis on it. I meant the puzzle being one aspect of the security puzzle. It may help or it may not but it cant hurt.
Author:  spears [ Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stealth output so that pokersite can't detect it
shalako wrote:
So the kvm2usb is able to take a screenshot without the host knowing about it?
Yes, up to 28 frames/sec, depending on image quality.
Author:  SkyBot [ Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stealth output so that pokersite can't detect it
Getrdyforthe wrote:
The problem of stealth outputting with the win32 api is that pokersites can hook the windows api.
So I'm looking for suggestions on how to simulate keyboard+mouse some other way that the pokersite can't detect by hooking some api?

Currently, I think the only way is by using kvm2usb.. I just have no idea how to stealth output otherwise.
But it's expensive to buy another computer and not to mention the $500 price tag of the kvm2usb before you even know if your bot is going to be sucessful.

So yeah, looking for a suggestion on how to stealth output (that truly is stealth) by using only 1 computer or possibly a VM (but I don't think that is stealthy since they can hook the networks api?)
But maybe that would be sufficient stealth on a lot of sites except stars where they'll ban you just for suspicion?
Maybe it's only stars that hook windows api too?

I'm just not sure which sites to target etc.. Did you just pick a method and try it out on a site and when you got caught you changed/adapted the method before opening a new account?
Don't you need a new address to open a new account or how is it done because it's not every day that you relocate..?


I use a VM, solves all these problems.
Take screenshot from VM host, and also send keyboard/mouse from there.
It of course tells them that you are maybe botting, bot they have no chance of detecting your bot (except if your mouse input is too artificial, or you fail at capchas, or your bot plays too bot-like, so basically dumb errors on your side).
Author:  Getrdyforthe [ Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stealth output so that pokersite can't detect it
SkyBot wrote:
Getrdyforthe wrote:
The problem of stealth outputting with the win32 api is that pokersites can hook the windows api.
So I'm looking for suggestions on how to simulate keyboard+mouse some other way that the pokersite can't detect by hooking some api?

Currently, I think the only way is by using kvm2usb.. I just have no idea how to stealth output otherwise.
But it's expensive to buy another computer and not to mention the $500 price tag of the kvm2usb before you even know if your bot is going to be sucessful.

So yeah, looking for a suggestion on how to stealth output (that truly is stealth) by using only 1 computer or possibly a VM (but I don't think that is stealthy since they can hook the networks api?)
But maybe that would be sufficient stealth on a lot of sites except stars where they'll ban you just for suspicion?
Maybe it's only stars that hook windows api too?

I'm just not sure which sites to target etc.. Did you just pick a method and try it out on a site and when you got caught you changed/adapted the method before opening a new account?
Don't you need a new address to open a new account or how is it done because it's not every day that you relocate..?


I use a VM, solves all these problems.
Take screenshot from VM host, and also send keyboard/mouse from there.
It of course tells them that you are maybe botting, bot they have no chance of detecting your bot (except if your mouse input is too artificial, or you fail at capchas, or your bot plays too bot-like, so basically dumb errors on your side).


So you have the bot running on the VM and the poker client running on your own computer?
How do you take a screenshot of your computer from the VM?
Author:  SkyBot [ Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stealth output so that pokersite can't detect it
Getrdyforthe wrote:
So you have the bot running on the VM and the poker client running on your own computer?
How do you take a screenshot of your computer from the VM?


No the opposite, poker client software is in a VM guest running Windows. The bot, screenshot and input code run on the host on Linux.
I use ImLib2 for screenshot and X11 for input. That way I do not depend in VM technology chosen, it works with VmWare, VirtualBox or other stuff like remote desktop or Wine.
Author:  HontoNiBaka [ Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stealth output so that pokersite can't detect it
I am considering buying the VM2USB, are tehre any tutorials on how to use it? Prefferably something, that explains it in a way that would be related to botting? What I've seen so far was from the perspective of a server admin.

Basically they only use it so that they can use their laptop as a monitor, but I would have to run some OCR on the screenshots.
Author:  spears [ Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stealth output so that pokersite can't detect it
You could use the software out of the box like this: The "casino" machine runs in a window on the "ai" machine. Then you take screen shots and do OCR on the "ai" machine.

Or you could use their apis to pick up the images from the box. http://www.epiphan.com/support/vga2usb- ... gn=VGA2USB

I think there used to be a Delphi example on their site. Maybe they can supply more doc if send them a mail.
Author:  HontoNiBaka [ Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stealth output so that pokersite can't detect it
Ok, thanks spears. I read, that what people use is KVM2USB, but it's actually VGA2USB, as I saw in your link.
Now it suddenly all makes much more sense. I will probably get one and see how it works.
Author:  spears [ Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to stealth output so that pokersite can't detect it
The KVM2USB has mouse/keyboard control but otherwise I think is the same as the VGA2USB
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