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trojanrabbit
 Post subject: Re: HUNL 6BB Strategy
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:43 pm 
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jm89_1 wrote:
Hi Tysen.

When you calculated your strategy, described in The Raiser's Edge, did you use static strategy on postflop?

I can't fully understand your statement "it matters a great deal on your post-flop assumption" as Nasher is calculating strategy which is not independent preflop/postflop. What I understand is that the strategy nasher is getting is something like "AKs call 80% push 20%, then on flop if you hit Q56ss then check 20% raise 80%, on flop A44 check 100% raise 0%, ..."

No, my strategy wasn't static. It varied by hand, position, stack size, and pre-flop aggression. I haven't seen anywhere what nasher is using for post flop strategies. I was assuming it was no post flop betting.

Tysen
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algonoob
 Post subject: Re: HUNL 6BB Strategy
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:25 pm 
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the way you named your file path inspired me about how to fix the false sharing problem ive been having with my multithreading
thanks nasher :)
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cantina
 Post subject: Re: HUNL 6BB Strategy
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:50 pm 
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I'm using CFRM to find NE for the entire game, all streets. I'm surprised the interest. I would think what the U of A guys are doing with 200bb stack games to be much more fascinating, and much more complex.

For my betting abstraction, there are six possible bet types post-flop, including min-bet and all-in. As mentioned previously, the flop hand buckets are unabstracted at each decision node (about 1.5m). On the turn/river there are approximately 400k buckets hierarchically defined based on custom board texture, hand strength, and hand potential metrics. I don't think the metrics I'm using offer any new insight into the underlying game, nor do I think they're excessively novel. I think Tysen could reproduce, improve upon, or possibly debunk these results with a couple days on an EC2 instance.
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cantina
 Post subject: Re: HUNL 6BB Strategy
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:49 am 
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nemesis17 wrote:
If I understood correctly the second chart is the BB strategy after the SB limps?
Do you think the strategies change much up to 8bb?

In both charts what is the difference between "Min" and "2BB"?


I can't comment on how the strategy changes between blind levels. Somewhere in these forums I posted a graph of the average strategy from the button for various stack size games (it might be in the restricted forums). The abstractions I used for the strategies in those graphs were terrible and there was a problem with the CFRM sampling method I was using at the time. i.e. The strategies sucked. Comparatively, the strategies I'm crunching now beat those by about 60+ BB/100 at the 25BB stack level (and they're not finished crunching).

Min bet is defined like: Max(amount_to_call, big_blind). Those bet amounts are "raise by" amounts, meaning that if you're facing a bet and want to raise, the amount of money you put into to the pot would be as if you called the bet first to make the pot even, then added the additional raise.
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nemesis17
 Post subject: Re: HUNL 6BB Strategy
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:30 am 
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Thanks for the explanation. You're using C# for the implementation and EC2 instances for crunching?
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proud2bBot
 Post subject: Re: HUNL 6BB Strategy
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:14 pm 
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Nasher wrote:
Min bet is defined like: Max(amount_to_call, big_blind). Those bet amounts are "raise by" amounts, meaning that if you're facing a bet and want to raise, the amount of money you put into to the pot would be as if you called the bet first to make the pot even, then added the additional raise.


This would result in a wrong minbet preflop SB vs BB: you'd raise by 1, i.e. to 1.5 instead of a regular minRaise of 2.
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algonoob
 Post subject: Re: HUNL 6BB Strategy
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:30 pm 
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the raise is on top of what you have to call
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cantina
 Post subject: Re: HUNL 6BB Strategy
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:01 am 
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nemesis17 wrote:
Thanks for the explanation. You're using C# for the implementation and EC2 instances for crunching?

I have my own workstation.
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cantina
 Post subject: Re: HUNL 6BB Strategy
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:16 am 
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proud2bBot wrote:
This would result in a wrong minbet preflop SB vs BB: you'd raise by 1, i.e. to 1.5 instead of a regular minRaise of 2.

You would call 0.5 to make the pot even and add 1BB, making the raise-to amount 2BBs (since you've already got 0.5BB in the pot). What'd they do to you when you went away?? :)
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proud2bBot
 Post subject: Re: HUNL 6BB Strategy
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:39 am 
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ahhh, but then: how can you possibly get different values for min and 2bb?!?
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cantina
 Post subject: Re: HUNL 6BB Strategy
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:45 pm 
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Image



They're "see and raise" amounts, as I explained, now for the 3rd time.

From the button:
Min = Call the SB and add 1BB (equivalent of a "raise-to" 2BB).
2BB = Call the SB and add 2BB. (equivalent of a "raise-to" 3BB)
3BB = Call the SB and add 3BB. (equivalent of a "raise-to" 4BB)
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proud2bBot
 Post subject: Re: HUNL 6BB Strategy
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:54 am 
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Nasher wrote:
They're "see and raise" amounts, as I explained, now for the 3rd time.


hahaha, that's what you get if you use weird numbers instead of raise to or raise by :p
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funkymonkey85
 Post subject: Re: HUNL 6BB Strategy
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:07 pm 
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1st of all tnx Nasher for sharing yours results.
2nd Ive tried to solve it my self so i got 169 * 21 = 3549 information Sets. Im using 5 bets abstraction {f, c, min, raise, all-in}. At post flop my game ends, so Im using preflop LUT in order to estimate terminal node EV. After 1 000 000, and approximately 277 visits of each node I've got the following results for 1st turn of player 1. It DOEST'N push 448/1326 ~ 34% of hands in comparison to ~ 40% from http://www.holdemresources.net/ that is preaty close for 1 000 000 iterations and 5 bet abstraction. instead of 2{f,a} as in ICM. So there is my resultes.

Code:
wrong


UPD: "-1" mistake in my prev cfm, this is correct one. 1M iterations. Some how im not getting close to Nasher's 1st in table, though this bot really like to change strategies (AAo) for example


Last edited by funkymonkey85 on Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:01 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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cantina
 Post subject: Re: HUNL 6BB Strategy
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:59 am 
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Interesting, it doesn't look like it calls much at all.
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funkymonkey85
 Post subject: Re: HUNL 6BB Strategy
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:54 am 
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Quote:
Interesting, it doesn't look like it calls much at all.

its just profile for SB, 1st in, I have 5 more profiles {fold, check/call, min, raise, all-in} for BB etc, so whole strategy consists of 169 * 21 = 3549 information Sets. I have 100 000 iterations now (1 000 000 deleted) if needed i ll post BB(if SB all-ins) later.
UPD: just in case callings for SB here is defined as adding 0.5BB to the pot
UPD2: well its kinda interesting the biggest call % = 26 for T2s, will think tomorrow that it means since my head hearts from trying to write benchmark.
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proud2bBot
 Post subject: Re: HUNL 6BB Strategy
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:53 am 
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I think not seeing call is expected as your postflop abstraction is too simplistic: in a limped case, the equity realization of BB is 100% which reduces the EV of SB thus making a PoF game more profitable. In reality, if we would limp strong hands and some weaker ones, we can c-bet and BB will either lose more with his calling hands postflop or lose his equity if he folds.
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funkymonkey85
 Post subject: Re: HUNL 6BB Strategy
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:16 pm 
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well after rewriting all thing from very begging. I get
1st in
<cards>|fold|<sb ? 0.5 : call >|2BB|3BB|4BB|all-in(6BB)
Code:
22o|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0008,0.0067,0.0465,0.9459,
32o|;1.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,
32s|;1.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,
33o|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0001,0.0001,0.0006,0.9993,
42o|;1.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,
42s|;0.9999,0.0000,0.0000,0.0001,0.0000,0.0000,
43o|;1.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,
43s|;0.0261,0.0000,0.0002,0.0000,0.0000,0.9737,
44o|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0005,0.0021,0.0003,0.9971,
52o|;1.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,
52s|;0.9999,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,
53o|;1.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,
53s|;0.0080,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0088,0.9831,
54o|;1.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,
54s|;0.0029,0.0005,0.0000,0.0026,0.0000,0.9941,
55o|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0002,0.0000,0.0756,0.9242,
62o|;1.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,
62s|;0.9998,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0002,
63o|;1.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,
63s|;0.0693,0.0000,0.0000,0.0005,0.0019,0.9282,
64o|;1.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,
64s|;0.0060,0.0000,0.0011,0.0010,0.0096,0.9823,
65o|;0.2405,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0001,0.7594,
65s|;0.0033,0.0000,0.0000,0.0020,0.2342,0.7606,
66o|;0.0000,0.0009,0.0005,0.0085,0.1455,0.8447,
72o|;1.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,
72s|;0.9998,0.0000,0.0000,0.0001,0.0000,0.0000,
73o|;1.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,
73s|;0.9458,0.0001,0.0000,0.0000,0.0001,0.0541,
74o|;1.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,
74s|;0.0111,0.0003,0.0001,0.0002,0.0000,0.9883,
75o|;0.9999,0.0001,0.0000,0.0001,0.0000,0.0000,
75s|;0.0018,0.0001,0.0000,0.0008,0.0054,0.9920,
76o|;0.0168,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.9831,
76s|;0.0003,0.0001,0.0000,0.0049,0.0558,0.9389,
77o|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0032,0.0421,0.2762,0.6785,
82o|;1.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,
82s|;0.9997,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0002,0.0001,
83o|;0.9999,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0001,0.0000,
83s|;0.9996,0.0000,0.0001,0.0000,0.0001,0.0002,
84o|;0.9999,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,
84s|;0.0527,0.0003,0.0000,0.0001,0.0001,0.9466,
85o|;0.9999,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,
85s|;0.0041,0.0001,0.0055,0.0005,0.0842,0.9055,
86o|;0.9695,0.0000,0.0001,0.0000,0.0000,0.0304,
86s|;0.0000,0.0003,0.0000,0.0010,0.1664,0.8323,
87o|;0.0078,0.0000,0.0005,0.0000,0.0549,0.9368,
87s|;0.0003,0.0001,0.0010,0.0137,0.0599,0.9250,
88o|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0015,0.0116,0.0361,0.9507,
92o|;1.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,
92s|;0.9994,0.0001,0.0003,0.0000,0.0000,0.0003,
93o|;1.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,
93s|;0.9838,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0002,0.0159,
94o|;0.9999,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,
94s|;0.0612,0.0001,0.0000,0.0001,0.0002,0.9384,
95o|;0.9998,0.0000,0.0002,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,
95s|;0.0005,0.0000,0.0002,0.0013,0.0141,0.9839,
96o|;0.9881,0.0001,0.0000,0.0001,0.0020,0.0097,
96s|;0.0004,0.0002,0.0001,0.0072,0.1989,0.7932,
97o|;0.0013,0.0000,0.0001,0.0108,0.0252,0.9626,
97s|;0.0001,0.0001,0.0006,0.0000,0.0262,0.9731,
98o|;0.0000,0.0002,0.0000,0.0000,0.0120,0.9878,
98s|;0.0000,0.0001,0.0022,0.0059,0.1110,0.8807,
99o|;0.0000,0.0015,0.0083,0.0056,0.0218,0.9628,
A2o|;0.0000,0.0001,0.0002,0.0010,0.0005,0.9982,
A2s|;0.0000,0.0002,0.0001,0.0116,0.1396,0.8485,
A3o|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0005,0.0021,0.0621,0.9352,
A3s|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0005,0.0021,0.0032,0.9942,
A4o|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0008,0.0025,0.0184,0.9783,
A4s|;0.0000,0.0001,0.0002,0.0008,0.0259,0.9729,
A5o|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0001,0.0044,0.9955,
A5s|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0004,0.0011,0.0677,0.9308,
A6o|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0002,0.0014,0.0061,0.9922,
A6s|;0.0000,0.0001,0.0000,0.0009,0.0552,0.9438,
A7o|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0003,0.0140,0.0100,0.9757,
A7s|;0.0000,0.0001,0.0001,0.0000,0.1374,0.8624,
A8o|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0001,0.0000,0.9998,
A8s|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0003,0.0028,0.1824,0.8145,
A9o|;0.0000,0.0001,0.0002,0.0068,0.0124,0.9805,
A9s|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0001,0.0015,0.0017,0.9967,
AAo|;0.0000,0.0065,0.0016,0.0020,0.0956,0.8943,
AJo|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0001,0.0006,0.0130,0.9864,
AJs|;0.0000,0.0001,0.0008,0.0106,0.0008,0.9878,
AKo|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0008,0.0730,0.9262,
AKs|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0002,0.9998,
AQo|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0005,0.0064,0.0001,0.9930,
AQs|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0011,0.0104,0.3341,0.6544,
ATo|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0001,0.0006,0.0000,0.9993,
ATs|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0014,0.0176,0.0123,0.9687,
J2o|;0.9996,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0003,0.0000,
J2s|;0.0000,0.0001,0.0001,0.0005,0.0195,0.9797,
J3o|;0.9995,0.0001,0.0001,0.0001,0.0000,0.0002,
J3s|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0023,0.0176,0.9801,
J4o|;0.9924,0.0067,0.0006,0.0000,0.0001,0.0002,
J4s|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0056,0.0073,0.0058,0.9813,
J5o|;0.9507,0.0414,0.0000,0.0016,0.0047,0.0015,
J5s|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0067,0.0093,0.3288,0.6552,
J6o|;0.0051,0.0322,0.0000,0.0021,0.0626,0.8980,
J6s|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0045,0.0678,0.9277,
J7o|;0.0001,0.0000,0.0006,0.0008,0.0603,0.9382,
J7s|;0.0000,0.0005,0.0057,0.0048,0.0301,0.9588,
J8o|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0106,0.0819,0.9075,
J8s|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0042,0.0598,0.1363,0.7997,
J9o|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0052,0.0133,0.0203,0.9612,
J9s|;0.0000,0.0002,0.0001,0.0223,0.0580,0.9195,
JJo|;0.0000,0.0065,0.0059,0.0047,0.0026,0.9804,
JTo|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0001,0.0009,0.0008,0.9982,
JTs|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0001,0.0004,0.9994,
K2o|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0069,0.0000,0.9931,
K2s|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0037,0.1078,0.8884,
K3o|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0063,0.0090,0.9847,
K3s|;0.0000,0.0004,0.0161,0.0147,0.3424,0.6263,
K4o|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0001,0.0102,0.0275,0.9621,
K4s|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0003,0.0032,0.4698,0.5267,
K5o|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0002,0.0011,0.0458,0.9529,
K5s|;0.0000,0.0002,0.0001,0.0001,0.1177,0.8819,
K6o|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0010,0.0005,0.0011,0.9974,
K6s|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0001,0.0143,0.0027,0.9829,
K7o|;0.0000,0.0001,0.0004,0.0000,0.0020,0.9975,
K7s|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0001,0.0001,0.0000,0.9998,
K8o|;0.0000,0.0001,0.0002,0.0002,0.0162,0.9833,
K8s|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0378,0.0238,0.9383,
K9o|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0004,0.0372,0.9625,
K9s|;0.0000,0.0001,0.0001,0.0122,0.0014,0.9863,
KJo|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0473,0.9526,
KJs|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0124,0.0671,0.9205,
KKo|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0004,0.9996,
KQo|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0003,0.1041,0.8956,
KQs|;0.0000,0.0004,0.0002,0.0008,0.0001,0.9985,
KTo|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0007,0.0005,0.0305,0.9683,
KTs|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0005,0.0036,0.0109,0.9849,
Q2o|;0.0005,0.0000,0.0002,0.0127,0.0484,0.9382,
Q2s|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0001,0.0011,0.4272,0.5717,
Q3o|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0004,0.0104,0.0035,0.9857,
Q3s|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0003,0.0030,0.0761,0.9207,
Q4o|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0001,0.2441,0.7557,
Q4s|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0014,0.0554,0.0010,0.9421,
Q5o|;0.0000,0.0001,0.0016,0.0002,0.0039,0.9942,
Q5s|;0.0000,0.0003,0.0000,0.0537,0.2165,0.7294,
Q6o|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0012,0.0299,0.2398,0.7291,
Q6s|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0010,0.0719,0.0653,0.8617,
Q7o|;0.0000,0.0005,0.0003,0.0006,0.1313,0.8674,
Q7s|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0064,0.3178,0.6758,
Q8o|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0012,0.0015,0.0254,0.9719,
Q8s|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0003,0.0059,0.0046,0.9891,
Q9o|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0006,0.0024,0.2432,0.7537,
Q9s|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0056,0.1465,0.8479,
QJo|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0098,0.1282,0.8620,
QJs|;0.0000,0.0002,0.0000,0.0000,0.3300,0.6697,
QQo|;0.0000,0.0060,0.0004,0.0045,0.0324,0.9566,
QTo|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0001,0.0084,0.2002,0.7913,
QTs|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0021,0.0078,0.4023,0.5878,
T2o|;0.9999,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0001,
T2s|;0.1996,0.0001,0.0000,0.0002,0.0104,0.7897,
T3o|;0.9999,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0001,
T3s|;0.0108,0.0001,0.0023,0.0028,0.0140,0.9700,
T4o|;0.9998,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0001,0.0000,
T4s|;0.0017,0.0002,0.0018,0.0037,0.0067,0.9858,
T5o|;0.9998,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0002,0.0000,
T5s|;0.0017,0.0001,0.0020,0.0130,0.4119,0.5712,
T6o|;0.9946,0.0015,0.0000,0.0000,0.0016,0.0021,
T6s|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0008,0.0047,0.0018,0.9927,
T7o|;0.0007,0.0000,0.0004,0.0076,0.2087,0.7826,
T7s|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0253,0.3806,0.5941,
T8o|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0018,0.0067,0.1286,0.8628,
T8s|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0005,0.2120,0.7569,0.0307,
T9o|;0.0000,0.0000,0.0004,0.0046,0.0661,0.9289,
T9s|;0.0000,0.0009,0.0000,0.0094,0.0232,0.9665,
TTo|;0.0000,0.0145,0.0002,0.0204,0.0220,0.9429,


after call
Code:
22o|c;0.0000,0.5172,0.0006,0.0597,0.0021,0.4204,
32o|c;0.0000,1.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,
32s|c;0.0011,0.3271,0.0195,0.0038,0.6458,0.0027,
33o|c;0.0000,0.1141,0.0119,0.0088,0.2993,0.5659,
42o|c;0.0000,1.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,
42s|c;0.0000,0.9999,0.0001,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,
43o|c;0.0000,0.9943,0.0000,0.0057,0.0000,0.0000,
43s|c;0.0000,0.0628,0.0000,0.6529,0.2728,0.0114,
44o|c;0.0000,0.8362,0.0042,0.0002,0.0066,0.1528,
52o|c;0.0000,0.9982,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0017,
52s|c;0.0000,0.0653,0.0002,0.1572,0.7774,0.0000,
53o|c;0.0000,0.9746,0.0025,0.0228,0.0001,0.0000,
53s|c;0.0003,0.9978,0.0000,0.0000,0.0018,0.0000,
54o|c;0.0000,0.0891,0.0000,0.0000,0.9109,0.0000,
54s|c;0.0000,0.0277,0.0148,0.1641,0.7200,0.0735,
55o|c;0.0000,0.9611,0.0014,0.0000,0.0000,0.0375,
62o|c;0.0000,1.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,
62s|c;0.0000,0.5798,0.0013,0.1032,0.0000,0.3157,
63o|c;0.0000,0.9998,0.0000,0.0001,0.0000,0.0000,
63s|c;0.0000,0.9922,0.0002,0.0000,0.0000,0.0076,
64o|c;0.0000,0.9908,0.0025,0.0000,0.0068,0.0000,
64s|c;0.0001,0.3275,0.0063,0.0505,0.5024,0.1133,
65o|c;0.0000,0.0755,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.9244,
65s|c;0.0006,0.0353,0.0028,0.1518,0.5054,0.3041,
66o|c;0.0000,0.3842,0.0047,0.0011,0.0070,0.6030,
72o|c;0.0000,0.9999,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,
72s|c;0.0000,0.8787,0.0000,0.0137,0.0910,0.0165,
73o|c;0.0000,0.9961,0.0000,0.0000,0.0038,0.0001,
73s|c;0.0000,0.9419,0.0000,0.0005,0.0576,0.0000,
74o|c;0.0000,0.9536,0.0000,0.0000,0.0434,0.0029,
74s|c;0.0000,0.1122,0.0000,0.0001,0.7863,0.1015,
75o|c;0.0000,0.1746,0.0000,0.0737,0.0204,0.7313,
75s|c;0.0000,0.1827,0.0005,0.2884,0.0000,0.5284,
76o|c;0.0000,0.9950,0.0000,0.0000,0.0029,0.0020,
76s|c;0.0006,0.3830,0.0002,0.0000,0.3892,0.2271,
77o|c;0.0000,0.0083,0.3340,0.0000,0.5657,0.0920,
82o|c;0.0000,0.9999,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0001,
82s|c;0.0000,0.6694,0.0000,0.0293,0.3014,0.0000,
83o|c;0.0000,0.9641,0.0068,0.0167,0.0000,0.0123,
83s|c;0.0000,0.9957,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0043,
84o|c;0.0000,0.9769,0.0000,0.0000,0.0145,0.0086,
84s|c;0.0000,0.0507,0.0001,0.0626,0.0000,0.8866,
85o|c;0.0000,0.9316,0.0000,0.0000,0.0684,0.0000,
85s|c;0.0000,0.8588,0.0062,0.1307,0.0044,0.0000,
86o|c;0.0000,0.9708,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0291,
86s|c;0.0000,0.2539,0.0000,0.1535,0.5269,0.0657,
87o|c;0.0000,0.5513,0.0000,0.0001,0.0000,0.4486,
87s|c;0.0000,0.1071,0.0021,0.0124,0.0000,0.8784,
88o|c;0.0000,0.0000,0.0003,0.0000,0.0000,0.9997,
92o|c;0.0000,0.9927,0.0071,0.0001,0.0000,0.0000,
92s|c;0.0000,0.6163,0.0000,0.3324,0.0000,0.0513,
93o|c;0.0000,0.9998,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0002,
93s|c;0.0000,0.9853,0.0000,0.0113,0.0000,0.0034,
94o|c;0.0000,0.9982,0.0000,0.0000,0.0018,0.0000,
94s|c;0.0000,0.9970,0.0012,0.0001,0.0012,0.0004,
95o|c;0.0000,0.1175,0.0004,0.0000,0.1306,0.7515,
95s|c;0.0000,0.0808,0.0020,0.0000,0.0146,0.9026,
96o|c;0.0000,0.9930,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0069,
96s|c;0.0000,0.0189,0.2238,0.1850,0.1818,0.3904,
97o|c;0.0000,0.9488,0.0038,0.0000,0.0300,0.0174,
97s|c;0.0000,0.0889,0.0000,0.0000,0.3020,0.6091,
98o|c;0.0000,0.9667,0.0078,0.0095,0.0092,0.0068,
98s|c;0.0000,0.2957,0.0023,0.0033,0.3628,0.3360,
99o|c;0.0000,0.5659,0.0225,0.0091,0.2814,0.1210,
A2o|c;0.0000,0.0002,0.0012,0.0322,0.0850,0.8814,
A2s|c;0.0000,0.0000,0.0011,0.0000,0.9988,0.0000,
A3o|c;0.0000,0.0326,0.0000,0.3502,0.2306,0.3865,
A3s|c;0.0000,0.0000,0.0014,0.0004,0.0240,0.9741,
A4o|c;0.0000,0.1507,0.4160,0.1711,0.0614,0.2009,
A4s|c;0.0000,0.0002,0.0224,0.2526,0.3757,0.3491,
A5o|c;0.0000,0.1453,0.0081,0.0001,0.8465,0.0000,
A5s|c;0.0000,0.0137,0.0222,0.0317,0.0006,0.9318,
A6o|c;0.0000,0.0000,0.0067,0.0495,0.8050,0.1388,
A6s|c;0.0000,0.0009,0.0057,0.0088,0.9405,0.0442,
A7o|c;0.0000,0.0130,0.0007,0.4655,0.5093,0.0116,
A7s|c;0.0000,0.1089,0.0006,0.2868,0.3378,0.2659,
A8o|c;0.0000,0.0125,0.0167,0.0016,0.4033,0.5659,
A8s|c;0.0000,0.0001,0.0055,0.0053,0.0000,0.9892,
A9o|c;0.0000,0.0923,0.0183,0.0264,0.4986,0.3644,
A9s|c;0.0000,0.0000,0.6531,0.1006,0.0020,0.2444,
AAo|c;0.0000,0.0000,0.1063,0.2318,0.3575,0.3045,
AJo|c;0.0000,0.0000,0.0104,0.0030,0.9675,0.0191,
AJs|c;0.0000,0.0000,0.0510,0.1692,0.7798,0.0000,
AKo|c;0.0000,0.0000,0.0466,0.1635,0.4253,0.3646,
AKs|c;0.0000,0.0000,0.0121,0.0032,0.9816,0.0031,
AQo|c;0.0000,0.0000,0.0945,0.0050,0.8871,0.0133,
AQs|c;0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0003,0.9753,0.0244,
ATo|c;0.0000,0.0009,0.0047,0.0837,0.2887,0.6219,
ATs|c;0.0000,0.0001,0.0549,0.3954,0.0335,0.5162,
J2o|c;0.0000,0.9721,0.0010,0.0000,0.0004,0.0265,
J2s|c;0.0000,0.0037,0.0000,0.0040,0.9727,0.0196,
J3o|c;0.0000,0.4933,0.0091,0.0000,0.4863,0.0113,
J3s|c;0.0000,0.2668,0.0138,0.2452,0.0208,0.4533,
J4o|c;0.0000,0.3728,0.0001,0.0000,0.0000,0.6270,
J4s|c;0.0000,0.2258,0.0033,0.0632,0.0003,0.7074,
J5o|c;0.0000,0.4208,0.0031,0.0300,0.2124,0.3337,
J5s|c;0.0000,0.0003,0.0090,0.1354,0.0079,0.8473,
J6o|c;0.0000,0.8521,0.0002,0.0044,0.0549,0.0883,
J6s|c;0.0000,0.5695,0.0007,0.0087,0.0469,0.3742,
J7o|c;0.0000,0.8761,0.0065,0.0004,0.0341,0.0829,
J7s|c;0.0000,0.2479,0.1047,0.1221,0.1495,0.3757,
J8o|c;0.0000,0.2905,0.0291,0.4525,0.0423,0.1857,
J8s|c;0.0000,0.3266,0.0162,0.2983,0.0658,0.2932,
J9o|c;0.0000,0.4744,0.0062,0.0000,0.3196,0.1998,
J9s|c;0.0000,0.0048,0.0164,0.0698,0.7034,0.2056,
JJo|c;0.0000,0.0000,0.1891,0.3677,0.2599,0.1833,
JTo|c;0.0000,0.2561,0.0271,0.0843,0.2969,0.3356,
JTs|c;0.0000,0.1664,0.0501,0.0909,0.0106,0.6820,
K2o|c;0.0000,0.0285,0.0000,0.2869,0.2889,0.3956,
K2s|c;0.0000,0.0007,0.0001,0.0000,0.0000,0.9991,
K3o|c;0.0000,0.6090,0.0064,0.0748,0.3077,0.0021,
K3s|c;0.0000,0.0169,0.0006,0.0052,0.9483,0.0289,
K4o|c;0.0000,0.0045,0.0107,0.0508,0.9185,0.0154,
K4s|c;0.0000,0.0128,0.0156,0.8516,0.0675,0.0524,
K5o|c;0.0000,0.2300,0.0246,0.0226,0.6412,0.0817,
K5s|c;0.0000,0.0108,0.4103,0.2256,0.2686,0.0847,
K6o|c;0.0000,0.0356,0.0060,0.0262,0.6965,0.2356,
K6s|c;0.0000,0.0010,0.0214,0.9081,0.0042,0.0653,
K7o|c;0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,1.0000,
K7s|c;0.0000,0.0000,0.0001,0.0423,0.6911,0.2665,
K8o|c;0.0000,0.0000,0.0017,0.0007,0.0098,0.9878,
K8s|c;0.0000,0.2450,0.2109,0.3280,0.1985,0.0176,
K9o|c;0.0000,0.0502,0.0256,0.1448,0.5358,0.2435,
K9s|c;0.0000,0.0104,0.0003,0.3796,0.0762,0.5334,
KJo|c;0.0000,0.0000,0.0325,0.0000,0.0008,0.9667,
KJs|c;0.0000,0.0000,0.2663,0.7335,0.0000,0.0002,
KKo|c;0.0000,0.0000,0.3061,0.1060,0.0063,0.5816,
KQo|c;0.0000,0.0000,0.0019,0.0012,0.9933,0.0037,
KQs|c;0.0000,0.0000,0.3071,0.2051,0.2000,0.2878,
KTo|c;0.0000,0.0035,0.0004,0.4960,0.0403,0.4599,
KTs|c;0.0000,0.0000,0.0037,0.0215,0.0022,0.9726,
Q2o|c;0.0000,0.8285,0.0001,0.0012,0.0040,0.1661,
Q2s|c;0.0000,0.0230,0.0003,0.0005,0.2689,0.7074,
Q3o|c;0.0000,0.3384,0.0001,0.0111,0.6100,0.0403,
Q3s|c;0.0000,0.0011,0.2418,0.5289,0.0000,0.2281,
Q4o|c;0.0000,0.2392,0.0000,0.0023,0.4613,0.2971,
Q4s|c;0.0000,0.0114,0.0015,0.6439,0.3062,0.0370,
Q5o|c;0.0000,0.8792,0.0095,0.1089,0.0023,0.0001,
Q5s|c;0.0000,0.0162,0.0160,0.2063,0.7602,0.0012,
Q6o|c;0.0000,0.0990,0.0013,0.0006,0.4774,0.4216,
Q6s|c;0.0000,0.0000,0.0002,0.0000,0.0137,0.9861,
Q7o|c;0.0000,0.0707,0.0078,0.0040,0.0058,0.9117,
Q7s|c;0.0000,0.0468,0.0004,0.5027,0.1586,0.2915,
Q8o|c;0.0000,0.5736,0.0029,0.4165,0.0070,0.0000,
Q8s|c;0.0000,0.1137,0.0024,0.0083,0.8539,0.0217,
Q9o|c;0.0000,0.1223,0.0083,0.0018,0.5488,0.3186,
Q9s|c;0.0000,0.2635,0.0151,0.3994,0.2917,0.0303,
QJo|c;0.0000,0.0018,0.0315,0.0774,0.3487,0.5406,
QJs|c;0.0000,0.0000,0.0202,0.2230,0.2067,0.5501,
QQo|c;0.0000,0.0000,0.0883,0.7037,0.2080,0.0000,
QTo|c;0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,0.9802,0.0197,
QTs|c;0.0000,0.0001,0.2594,0.3170,0.0000,0.4236,
T2o|c;0.0000,0.7703,0.1564,0.0005,0.0062,0.0666,
T2s|c;0.0000,0.7117,0.1939,0.0032,0.0010,0.0902,
T3o|c;0.0000,0.9986,0.0009,0.0000,0.0000,0.0005,
T3s|c;0.0000,0.9704,0.0011,0.0000,0.0285,0.0000,
T4o|c;0.0000,0.9997,0.0002,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000,
T4s|c;0.0000,0.6540,0.0106,0.0167,0.3027,0.0159,
T5o|c;0.0000,0.8084,0.0024,0.0000,0.0115,0.1777,
T5s|c;0.0001,0.8448,0.0000,0.0081,0.0123,0.1347,
T6o|c;0.0000,0.9940,0.0000,0.0000,0.0060,0.0000,
T6s|c;0.0000,0.0557,0.0015,0.0037,0.8912,0.0480,
T7o|c;0.0000,0.9995,0.0002,0.0003,0.0000,0.0000,
T7s|c;0.0000,0.1470,0.0000,0.0116,0.0005,0.8409,
T8o|c;0.0000,0.8944,0.0067,0.0027,0.0903,0.0059,
T8s|c;0.0000,0.6797,0.0759,0.0224,0.0496,0.1724,
T9o|c;0.0000,0.0261,0.0063,0.0000,0.0323,0.9353,
T9s|c;0.0000,0.5366,0.0001,0.0000,0.0000,0.4632,
TTo|c;0.0000,0.0000,0.1213,0.0000,0.1631,0.7155,

results was NOT normalized. 100M itterations. some how his 1 shows that been SB is more profitable!!! at around 0.02 +/- 0.01 BB. Doing same for 4, 8, 10 BB SB is -EV. is it magical to be at 6BB?

UPD: Nasher if you want to compare whole preflope 6BB Im willing to send you whole profile, just for a sake of it
PS. still LF partner. if any fill free to PM me, I'm total noob.
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cantina
 Post subject: Re: HUNL 6BB Strategy
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:48 pm 
Offline
Veteran Member

Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:39 am
Posts: 437
P2BB probably had the right idea. Why not solve post-flop too? Even with small buckets, you'll probably get better results than trial/error with a static post-flop strategy. Then you'll have a baseline to test your post-flop strategies against, if you want to keep trying that method.
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funkymonkey85
 Post subject: Re: HUNL 6BB Strategy
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:27 am 
Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:21 am
Posts: 10
Quote:
P2BB probably had the right idea. Why not solve post-flop too? Even with small buckets, you'll probably get better results than trial/error with a static post-flop strategy. Then you'll have a baseline to test your post-flop strategies against, if you want to keep trying that method.

Advise I'm taking. Im up on doing post flop, though according to my calculations it ll take 2-3 weeks to get some dissent results. The thing what is killing me that after solving post-flop to get better results I ll need to redo flop with post-flop profile and so on. It's like INFINITY. And now my 2nd PC is only in the middle of preflop profile. In the begging didn't think that CPU usage, not memory, will be an issue. Just 1 question about post-flop bucketing. I've started with 100 buckets, divided by e[HS^2]. Im dividing them into buckets linearly, so im getting not equal sized buckets, though close by e[HS^2]. Maybe I shall use gaussian distribution instead?

Example:
Code:
for (int i =0, i < 100, i++)
     if (inRange(lowerBound, upperBound, value))
               return i; // as bucket

Linear:
lowerBound = i/100;
upperBouund = (i+1)/100

Gaussian:
(Smth like, didnt think it deaper yet)
lowerBound = (i/100) * standardDiviation * t-value;
upperBouund = (i+1)/100 * standardDiviation * t-value;
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cantina
 Post subject: Re: HUNL 6BB Strategy
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:49 pm 
Offline
Veteran Member

Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:39 am
Posts: 437
I'm not sure what you're doing with solving the rounds separately, you may want to solve the entire game at once.

For this I used linear dividing on my metrics. You're correct, the distribution of hands in EHS2 isn't linear. I once tried an uneven distribution in my bucketing (something akin to an exponential density starting from the center) which did improve performance, although in my experiment it wasn't enough for me to continue exploring.

The density landscape may not be easily defined with a single function either. It may require something like a Gaussian Mixture Model to accurately portray it. The distribution of hands changes and gets more complex in different areas of the game too, as the strategy converges. Ideally you would want to solve the game with linear dividing, use the solved game to define the distribution of hands, then solve a new game with the new distribution. The question is: how do you store/use that distribution for each information set?
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