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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:18 am 
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Hi guys!

There are some old threads about this on different sites, but I need some up to date advice.

Should I use PokerTracker or HoldemManager to get stats for players in my bot?

If I choose one of these apps, is there anything important in the other app that I will miss?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:04 pm 
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I actually get my stats from holdem manager 1, but Open Holdem guys uses PT3 because the schema is known and you can reconstruct all the stats easily.
With HM1 the most of stats are easy to reconstruct but some aren't. However, they are optimized.
PT3 instead is old and as i heard, some queries need a lot of time to be done.
With HM2 is impossible to extract stats, because they doesn't store them in the DB but in files, for "performance issues", they said.
And PT4 i didn't try it, but if it could be possible to extract all stats as it was for PT3, i would try it.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:10 am 
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I didnt know you could do this. So I can extract PT4 data for my bot? I am using an internal stats program I wrote but using PT4 would be way better. Is it slow or ?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:02 am 
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I think that all bots use stats from PT or HM.
The speed is ok, also because you need to retrieve stats once per hand, or once in a while and on player change.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:25 am 
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shadehs wrote:
With HM2 is impossible to extract stats, because they doesn't store them in the DB but in files, for "performance issues", they said.

I didn't know that HM2 had changed to a db-format that makes it impossible to extract statistics. If this is true, and I have no reason to doubt it, HM2 is out of the question. Thanks shadehs, for this very important information!

Can someone please confirm that it is possible to get statistics from PT4?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:02 pm 
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Some 3rd party programs like TableScan Turbo are able to use HM2- and PT4-stats. So it must be possible somehow. But I haven't looked into this and don't know how easy or complicated it is.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:42 pm 
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Considering PT4 has a 'Database Management' guide, it's likely you'll be able to access the database.
There's also a free trial, so why not try and see?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:22 pm 
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It works with both, holdem manager 2 and poker tracker 4


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:56 pm 
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proud2bBot wrote:
It works with both, holdem manager 2 and poker tracker 4


The last thread that i read about SQL queries on HM2 was this:
http://forums.holdemmanager.com/general ... stats.html

I don't know if they implemented an API or something similar, do you have more recent news ?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:51 am 
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PT4 uses a PostgreSQL Server that should be easy to setup. I should have done this long ago.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:31 am 
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So, the state today is that it works with PT4 and probably will work with HM2 sometime in the future when they release their API.

A tip for everyone: I read somewhere that you can get the SQL for a query from HM1 and PT3 logs. This must obviously be a big help, because you don't need to understand SQL and the the db-schema in the same way as when you write the SQL yourself. I would guess you can do this also in the latest versions of the programs.


Another question on this subject:
How do you get up to date statistics for all opponents on a table your bot is sitting down at, even if you haven't played that particular opp before?
Do you have to pay for a hand history subscription with online updates (like hhmailer 5-min option), or is there some other way to do it without paying?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:43 am 
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Seikez wrote:
Another question on this subject:
How do you get up to date statistics for all opponents on a table your bot is sitting down at, even if you haven't played that particular opp before?
Do you have to pay for a hand history subscription with online updates (like hhmailer 5-min option), or is there some other way to do it without paying?

If you need the stats before actually playing with your opponent and don't want to pay, the only alternative is to use a datamining software.
Time ago i bought some HH from pokertableratings, and it was cool to have millions of hands in the database. However it was before the black friday. Didn't buy anithing else since that time.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:01 pm 
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iKNOWpoker wrote:
Some 3rd party programs like TableScan Turbo are able to use HM2- and PT4-stats. So it must be possible somehow. But I haven't looked into this and don't know how easy or complicated it is.


Its possible to get the stats, I got the VPIP at least, but its a waste of time.

The developers of big 3rd party programs either spend a lot of time with it, which makes sense, since it will increase sales a lot, or they get tutorials from the hm2 guys.

An api was promised more tha a year ago, it will probably never come.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:06 am 
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HontoNiBaka wrote:
An api was promised more tha a year ago, it will probably never come.


That's also my opinion, and that's why i think i trashed my money when buying HM2.
Shalako, if you are working on queries from PT4, maybe you want to share some of them and what are the performance on a large sample size ?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:47 pm 
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If you can get your hands on PT3, I think that could be the best deal.
From this forum post, it sounds like they've made some changes to the layout from PT3!

[EDIT]... and no longer provide any documentation about the DB, unlike PT3.
Also, I can provide some sample queries in Java if you'd be interested.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:42 am 
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ibot wrote:
... and no longer provide any documentation about the DB, unlike PT3.

Can't you get info on the db-schema from PostgreSQL in some way? (I have never worked with PostgreSQL, but it would be strange if this wasn't possible either from PostgreSQL directly, or from some free tool)

Quote:
Also, I can provide some sample queries in Java if you'd be interested.

Of course we are interested. All information is a help.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:18 pm 
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Seikez wrote:
Can't you get info on the db-schema from PostgreSQL in some way? (I have never worked with PostgreSQL, but it would be strange if this wasn't possible either from PostgreSQL directly, or from some free tool)

It's possible to get the info on the db-schema, however it's a lot of abbreviations etc.. so not very easy to understand.
It's likely it'll be similar to the PT3 db and abbreviations but who knows.

This is an example for getting Preflop stats.
Code:
public static double[] getPreflopStats(String name, Connection con) {
         
        double[] stats = new double[6];
         
        int id_player = 1;
         
        PreparedStatement pst = null;
        ResultSet rs = null;
         
        try {
             
            // Get player ID
            String stm = "SELECT id_player FROM player WHERE player_name = ?;";
            pst = con.prepareStatement(stm);
            pst.setString(1, name);
            rs = pst.executeQuery();
 
            while (rs.next()) {
                id_player = rs.getInt(1);
            }
               
            stm = "SELECT "+
                       "( SUM(cnt_p_raise) / ( 1.0 + SUM(cnt_p_raise) + SUM(cnt_p_call) + SUM(cnt_p_fold) ) ), "+ //AFq
                       "( SUM(cnt_p_raise)*1.0 / SUM(cnt_hands) ), "+ //PFR
                       "( SUM(cnt_vpip)*1.0 / SUM(cnt_hands) ), "+ //VPIP
                       "( SUM(cnt_p_first_raise) / ( 1.0 + SUM(cnt_p_open_opp)) )  , "+//RAISEFIRST
                       "( SUM(cnt_p_3bet) / (1.0 + SUM(cnt_p_3bet_opp)) ), "+ //3BET
                       "SUM(cnt_hands) "+
                       "FROM holdem_cache WHERE id_player = ?;";
            pst = con.prepareStatement(stm);
            pst.setInt(1, id_player);
            rs = pst.executeQuery();
             
            while (rs.next()) {
                for (int i=0; i<stats.length; i++) {
                    stats[i] = rs.getDouble(i+1);   
                }
            }
             <more code here..>
        }
       
        return stats;
    }


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:36 pm 
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IBot, did you use PT3 in the past?
Are PT4 queries execution performance better than PT3 queries ?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:48 pm 
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shadehs wrote:
IBot, did you use PT3 in the past?
Are PT4 queries execution performance better than PT3 queries ?

The above query is for PT3, that's what I use.
I couldn't tell you if PT4 is faster, i'm sure someone will know - maybe ask/search on the PokerTracker forums.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:27 pm 
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shadehs wrote:
proud2bBot wrote:
It works with both, holdem manager 2 and poker tracker 4


The last thread that i read about SQL queries on HM2 was this:
http://forums.holdemmanager.com/general ... stats.html

I don't know if they implemented an API or something similar, do you have more recent news ?


Ahh, sorry, I forgot: I used PT3 and HM1 with SQL in the past and that was working. PT4 I'm using now and its working too (you can easily see the schema in the DB, so I don't get why people complain about not having the schema...). I also used HM2 but scraped the stats, which I skipped later in favor of PT4.
If you are starting over, I'd always use PT4 as you can get everything out, its quite easy and fast. Choosing PT3 just for the sake of the documentation is weird, as you can see the schema anyway and you'll have longer support for PT4 for sure...


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