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Author:  kixs [ Fri Jul 29, 2016 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Back To Botting
Hi All,

So I just moved back to Europe and can actually easily get on the poker sites again. I shelved my setup in early 2012 when I moved to the US for work. I've fresher up on the newest papers and the progress is really amazing. Previously I created a nl husng Nash bot utilizing cfrm and screen scraping. Ran it for probably a year on all the major sites and never had any issues.

With the new techniques and systems now available I am planning on creating a new bot with a much finer abstraction. Might even attempt a 6 max bot. 128 core used blade servers are availablessed for less than 2k.. my wife is going to love the electric BILL!

Anyway, glad to see some familiar faces but this forum seems much slower. Whathe happened to the old one?
Author:  spears [ Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Back To Botting
Welcome back. The old forum is archived at http://www.poker-ai.org/archive/www.pokerai.org/pf3/ Indiana retired and didn't want to / couldn't hand over the old forum so I set up a new one.
Author:  kixs [ Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Back To Botting
Spears, I for one am glad you saw fit to archive the old forum as it is invaluable. Perhaps, I will wget --mirror -p --convert-links -P ./LOCAL-DIR poker-ai.org just incase lol. I just received my household goods and managed to get my systems setup over the weekend. Looking back at my old code I find I did not comment very well at all. It appears I had created a very extensible system which lets me solve a variety of games once I extend and/or implement a few classes. Looks like I am going to play around and solve one card poker again to ensure everything is working correctly.

Has anyone played with CFRM and distributed computing? I am contemplating creating a network where various nodes receive assignments from the main node thereby reducing memory requirements. This would be similar to how Alberta solved FLHU. The ultimate goal is to create a new HUNL eNash that has absolutely zero card abstraction beyond isomorphism’s. Also, one of the things I want to play with is just in time solving for the river and perhaps turn.

Goals goal.. Perhaps I will keep a running log here to keep the forum alive instead of only help me posts. It really make some wonder where all the very knowledgeable people ran off too.
Author:  kixs [ Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Back To Botting
A New Day!!

On my quest to bring my HUNL bot back to life I decided last night to recreate the wheel and solve one card poker again. This allows me to test that my old implementation of chance sampled CFRM is indeed working. I don't plan on using this implementation beyond testing new bots against the strategies it creates. Additionally I will use one card poker to test any new CRM implementation I create.

For those that are not familiar here is a previous thread from half a decade agao :lol:
http://www.poker-ai.org/archive/www.pok ... a&start=20

After 1M runs here are the results. The ev = 0.0640207... which is about the .064 it should be.
Code:
k   : 0.95 0.05 0.6 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 0.33 0.16 0.01 0.19 0.84 0.26
kk  : 0.0 0.01 0.99 1.0 0.99 1.0 1.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
kb  : 1.0 0.99 0.01 0.0 0.01 0.0 0.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0
kbf : 1.0 1.0 0.79 0.75 0.18 0.41 0.49 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
kbc : 0.0 0.0 0.21 0.25 0.82 0.59 0.51 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0
b   : 0.05 0.95 0.4 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.67 0.84 0.99 0.81 0.16 0.74
bf  : 1.0 1.0 1.0 0.51 0.43 0.41 0.63 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
bc  : 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.49 0.57 0.59 0.37 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0


Now time to move on to reviving my test bed to play bot against bot/humans.
Author:  spears [ Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Back To Botting
kixs wrote:
Perhaps, I will wget --mirror -p --convert-links -P ./LOCAL-DIR poker-ai.org


I wouldn't worry about mirroring the site. I'm not planning on shutting down, and if I did I would give you all plenty of notice.

kixs wrote:
Has anyone played with CFRM and distributed computing? I am contemplating creating a network where various nodes receive assignments from the main node thereby reducing memory requirements. This would be similar to how Alberta solved FLHU. The ultimate goal is to create a new HUNL eNash that has absolutely zero card abstraction beyond isomorphism’s.

No card abstractions would be very hard. I reckon no bet size abstractions would make it impossible

kixs wrote:
It really make some wonder where all the very knowledgeable people ran off too.

The old site was in fairly serious decline which is why indiana quit. The low hanging fruit has been taken. As to alternatives, I wish I knew. I think there is money to be made in horse racing betting bots on betfair, maybe trading bitcoin too. I'm quite interested in the deep learning revolution, but can't see a good way to make money out of it right now.
Author:  kixs [ Sat Aug 13, 2016 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Back To Botting
spears wrote:
No card abstractions would be very hard. I reckon no bet size abstractions would make it impossible

kixs wrote:
It really make some wonder where all the very knowledgeable people ran off too.

The old site was in fairly serious decline which is why indiana quit. The low hanging fruit has been taken. As to alternatives, I wish I knew. I think there is money to be made in horse racing betting bots on betfair, maybe trading bitcoin too. I'm quite interested in the deep learning revolution, but can't see a good way to make money out of it right now.


Yeah it is going to be a task. I have a few ideas that I am going to run on toy games to see if they are plausible. Technically we have 1755~ flop isomorphic combinations and the turn has a little over 16k. This is assuming you are not maintaining perfect board recall. What I want to do is attempt to abstract down the betting sequences into three numbers: pot size, villain raise (total hand so far), and villain last action (raise amount in bb, or 0 for call/check). Who knows if it will beat my current implementations but cant wait to see!

I dont know about trading bitcoin. If your going to go that route you might aswell go for forex. Plus they wont care if you bot lol.
Author:  kixs [ Sat Aug 13, 2016 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Back To Botting
Status Update!

I have gotten my old test bed working and my previous CFRM bots. Personally, I stole the opentestbed a long time ago and have heavily modified it to fit my needs. Perhaps the current opentestbed has come long some ways and is better! Who knows, maybe I will look into it.

In my previous stint of botting I primarily utilized CFRM bots and dabbled with MCTS utilizing a players stats from PT3. It was my experience that my nash bots overall performed better. One thing that always annoyed me was the variance of HUNL. I even posted a thread about it a very long time ago: http://www.poker-ai.org/archive/www.pok ... =30&t=4553

Well, out of curiousity I decided to find out how much variance a player can expect. I ran a test where the same AI played itself for 200k duplicate hands. In the test, BB are $10 and each hand the bots start out with $250. I was really surprised with the result because this is the same exact AI playing duplicate hands. Impressions?

Attachments:
Capture.PNG
Capture.PNG [ 73.34 KiB | Viewed 18822 times ]
Author:  nefton [ Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Back To Botting
I also suprized first in this chart. So I rechecked it. I do not know how often your bot plays a different rates, but I tried a few (20$ 50$ 250$) and get same results (even more spread)
But, after a few minutes of thinking.... So mutch spread because very EQUAL of bots scill.
If some bot had a micro advantage in 0.5BB/100 - then your graph be transformed in a line at 200000.
And if advantage will be 3BB/100 - graph will be a line mutch faster.

And what means?
Quote:
AI played itself for 200k duplicate hands.

For example if rule based bot play itself duplicate hands profit will be EQUAL ZERRO.
If you want measure some dispersion, you need not any duplicate hands.
There will be more errors and nothig more.
Author:  spears [ Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Back To Botting
Duplicate games will only give zero variance if the strategy is deterministic and the duplicate hand is played immediately after the original. This looks like a lot of variance even for a non-deterministic strategy.
Author:  nefton [ Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Back To Botting
spears wrote:
This looks like a lot of variance even for a non-deterministic strategy.

Here is graph for coinflip 50/50 200k games, 50$ each.
Code:

int main(){
   const int total_games = 200000;
   int ballance = 0;
   ofstream file("d:/games_data.txt");
   for (int game_number = 1; game_number <= total_games; game_number++){
      if (game_number % 1000 == 0) file << game_number << "\t" << ballance << "\n";
      if (rand() % 2 == 0) ballance += 50;
      else ballance -= 50;
   }
   file.close();
   cout << endl << endl;
   system("pause");
   return 0;
}


Attachments:
File comment: coinflip 50$ 200k games
graph.png
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