Poker-AI.org Poker AI and Botting Discussion Forum 2013-07-07T11:54:05+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/feed.php?f=26&t=2435 2013-07-07T11:54:05+00:00 2013-07-07T11:54:05+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=4392#p4392 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]>
I have been working for some time on my own botting solution. I started with the infrastructure (managing virtual machines and so on) and have now reached a point where I have to decide how to get state from the poker program and give input to it. The poker program is running in one VirtualBox VM, the bot in another.

There are a number of alternative approaches (Bring and so on...), but none I have been able to figure out so far that I think would be impossible for the poker software to detect if it really wants to. My bot should be able to play the most difficult sites, so total stealth is needed (if at all possible).

I would really appreciate some good advice on what is the best approach. I realize this should maybe not be discussed in public, so if someone 'in the know' would want to PM me it would really be appreciated. I hope one day I can give something back. 8-)

Statistics: Posted by Seikez — Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:54 am


]]>
2013-04-17T00:40:15+00:00 2013-04-17T00:40:15+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3850#p3850 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> northcroft wrote:

eugen wrote:
is it possible to get proccess .exe signature or checksum or something like that?
i.e. if I rename bring.exe to skype.exe, will they know it's not skype?

wish this was being asked in a private forum.... :(

That's pretty common knowledge. If I see anything worth moving I will.

Statistics: Posted by Coffee4tw — Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:40 am


]]>
2013-04-13T16:04:17+00:00 2013-04-13T16:04:17+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3834#p3834 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> eugen wrote:

Doesn't exactly work like that. You can put a line that you own my soul in forum terms, doesn't mean it will hold in court even if I click "I agree".
Assuming you put a copyright notice on your software... How awsome would it feel to sue stars for software piracy after their client sends your .exe over ftp?

Statistics: Posted by northcroft — Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:04 pm


]]>
2013-04-13T15:47:00+00:00 2013-04-13T15:47:00+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3833#p3833 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> eugen wrote:

is it possible to get proccess .exe signature or checksum or something like that?
i.e. if I rename bring.exe to skype.exe, will they know it's not skype?

wish this was being asked in a private forum.... :(

Statistics: Posted by northcroft — Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:47 pm


]]>
2013-04-12T13:23:56+00:00 2013-04-12T13:23:56+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3828#p3828 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> Statistics: Posted by Blub478 — Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:23 pm


]]>
2013-04-12T13:04:46+00:00 2013-04-12T13:04:46+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3827#p3827 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> Blub478 wrote:

Here you go

Quote:
Hello XXX,

Because we have been unable to reach you by telephone despite several attempts to do so, we will conduct the interview by Email.

We believe that you may have been developing and using a prohibited application in conjunction with your play on PokerStars. To help us make a determination about this, please answer the following questions.

1. Please detail your relationship with player 'Player'. Name the player by full name if you can, and describe how you know the player in detail.

2. Please detail your relationship with player ‘Player2'. Name the player by full name if you can, and describe how you know the player in detail.

3. Before your account shutdown, we noted that you suddenly "stepped down" from your normal high stakes [My preferred game Full Ring] to play lower stakes [My preferred game Heads Up]. What was the impetus for this change in your game selection?

4. You seem to have used two different machines for your play, one machine for high stakes full ring, and a different machine for your low stakes heads up play. Why was this?

5. One of the machines in question, the one used to play the heads up games, was a Virtual Machine. Why did you find it necessary to use a virtual machine for your heads up play, but not your high stakes play?

6. The playing profile for each of the game selections was rather distinctive and consistent, yet they differed from each other. For example, your reaction time in the heads up games was very fast and very consistent, while your full ring game you played slower and with more variance in your action times. Your tables were of varying sizes and positions when you played high stakes, but were meticulously sized and positioned the same way every time for heads up. Can you explain these differences?

7. You stopped playing low stakes heads up Razz on [A nice summer day]. Why did you stop? What happened to the virtual machine you were using after that date?

8. You were observed using several unusual applications, predominantly during your heads up low stakes play. Please explain your reason for the use of each of the following:

TeamViewer
Camtasia Studio
Embarcadero RAD Studio

TeamViewer continued to be used beyond October 12th. Whose machine were you remote-controlling, and/or who was remote-controlling you?

9. Who is [My Real name]? What is the meaning of [2 friends]?

10. The following application was observed on your machine:

c:\users\[blub]\desktop\8.5 - ps\debug\win32\icq.exe

It carried several version numbers, and varied in file size. What is the purpose of this file? Did you supply a copy of this program to any other player? What is the meaning of its name, ICQ? Would you be willing to supply a copy of the executable, and a copy of the source code that we could compile ourselves, in order to verify the purpose of this application?

-> At this point I am sure they copied the files that stupid fckers


11. We conducted several tests to determine if a human was present at the controls while Quicktob.exe was running. These tests would have gone unnoticed by a human player, but would have confused an automated software player, rendering it unable to continue playing. These tests were failed multiple times at low stakes heads up, but passed during high stakes play. Please explain.

Thank you for your cooperation in answering these questions.

Sincerely,


Did you get any warnings or did they just blocked the account?

Statistics: Posted by xMKx — Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:04 pm


]]>
2013-04-11T15:02:28+00:00 2013-04-11T15:02:28+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3811#p3811 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> eugen wrote:

Biggest mystery for me is safely communicating between VM and host, how to send traffic so that it would be untraceable...

As far as I know it isn't possible to sniff or even detect outgoing traffic on Windows without any help of some filter drivers. By that I mean packets and times of them sent out by VM. Only thing they can do is listing open TCP connections, which they are doing too. And they could sniff incoming traffic.

So you can mask the incoming traffic by minimizing the amount of data, crypting it, sending it at steady intervals so there are no timing tells, use hooks to prevent PS listing connections/sniffing, make it look like it's a remote postgresql server or something and so on.
Run your interface inside PokerTracker process and use some type of pinging to send actions to the VM :D

Or as Blub478 said, do everything on the host - scrape and interact with the VM only.

Statistics: Posted by Kratt — Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:02 pm


]]>
2013-04-11T07:51:01+00:00 2013-04-11T07:51:01+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3810#p3810 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> eugen wrote:

Doesn't exactly work like that. You can put a line that you own my soul in forum terms, doesn't mean it will hold in court even if I click "I agree".
Then again who would go to court knowing that they probably got banned for a reason.. :D


exactly!

this brings the south park episode of humancentipoad into my mind :mrgreen:

Statistics: Posted by winnie — Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:51 am


]]>
2013-04-10T19:13:22+00:00 2013-04-10T19:13:22+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3792#p3792 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> Coffee4tw wrote:

I doubt anything they do is really illegal. When you agree to their terms & conditions and download & install their software they are allowed to do a lot of things. And they are openly admitting that they are scanning for other programs. If you don't like it, don't play there.
Most of the other data they use is usage data of the services they offer, information that you willingly gave them and that they own and can do whatever they want with. Including identifying outliers and finding bots.

Doesn't exactly work like that. You can put a line that you own my soul in forum terms, doesn't mean it will hold in court even if I click "I agree".
Then again who would go to court knowing that they probably got banned for a reason.. :D

Statistics: Posted by eugen — Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:13 pm


]]>
2013-04-10T18:54:08+00:00 2013-04-10T18:54:08+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3790#p3790 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]>

Statistics: Posted by Blub478 — Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:54 pm


]]>
2013-04-10T18:52:42+00:00 2013-04-10T18:52:42+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3789#p3789 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> Most of the other data they use is usage data of the services they offer, information that you willingly gave them and that they own and can do whatever they want with. Including identifying outliers and finding bots.

Statistics: Posted by Coffee4tw — Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:52 pm


]]>
2013-04-10T18:44:55+00:00 2013-04-10T18:44:55+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3788#p3788 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> Statistics: Posted by eugen — Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:44 pm


]]>
2013-04-10T18:43:54+00:00 2013-04-10T18:43:54+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3787#p3787 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> Blub478 wrote:

Ok, thats new to me!
But of course, if Poker Stars would admit they copied data from any personal computer they would be really f***** :D
Guess they wouldn't commit that crime but even if you would send them fake source code - advisors are also against their terms of agreement!


There is a list of programs that are approved by PokerStars, even PokerStove is now one of them :)
http://www.pokerstars.ee/en/poker/room/prohibited/

Statistics: Posted by xMKx — Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:43 pm


]]>
2013-04-10T18:32:24+00:00 2013-04-10T18:32:24+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3785#p3785 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> But of course, if Poker Stars would admit they copied data from any personal computer they would be really f***** :D
Guess they wouldn't commit that crime but even if you would send them fake source code - advisors are also against their terms of agreement!

Statistics: Posted by Blub478 — Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:32 pm


]]>
2013-04-10T18:24:20+00:00 2013-04-10T18:24:20+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3784#p3784 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> Blub478 wrote:

As I wrote, they surely had the files before asking me to send them :D
However, they had enough proof without them.

Why would you want to send the data from the guest to the host?
Just screen scrape the vm!


Well.. I heard a case where they blocked an account, asked for the source code of the program. User refused to send the source code explaining that the program does not do anything against their terms. The argument led to a result where the money from the account was refunded, but account remained blocked until the user would send them the source code. If they would have any solid evidence, then this kind of a thing should not happen...

Statistics: Posted by xMKx — Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:24 pm


]]>
2013-04-10T18:17:21+00:00 2013-04-10T18:17:21+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3782#p3782 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]>
However, they had enough proof without them.

Why would you want to send the data from the guest to the host?
Just screen scrape the vm!

Statistics: Posted by Blub478 — Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:17 pm


]]>
2013-04-10T18:03:02+00:00 2013-04-10T18:03:02+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3780#p3780 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]>
Has anyone had any problems when using a bot made in Java?

If stars asks for a source code, why not send something similar but functionally different :D?

Statistics: Posted by xMKx — Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:03 pm


]]>
2013-04-10T17:51:10+00:00 2013-04-10T17:51:10+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3777#p3777 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> Statistics: Posted by eugen — Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:51 pm


]]>
2013-04-10T16:49:16+00:00 2013-04-10T16:49:16+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3773#p3773 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> My bot is currently scanning the screen scraping positions in a range from -10 to +10 pixels in case it doesn't find the cards for some seconds.
However, I think that if Pokerstars flagged you and really wants to see whether you are botting then your chances are really small.

Statistics: Posted by Blub478 — Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:49 pm


]]>
2013-04-10T16:17:27+00:00 2013-04-10T16:17:27+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3767#p3767 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> Something that would build table maps itself and then rebuild them should it notice any problems?

Statistics: Posted by eugen — Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:17 pm


]]>
2013-04-10T15:55:46+00:00 2013-04-10T15:55:46+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3766#p3766 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> Statistics: Posted by Blub478 — Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:55 pm


]]>
2013-04-10T15:45:31+00:00 2013-04-10T15:45:31+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3765#p3765 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]>
Many thanks

Considering this happened 3 years ago, their bot detection methods probably improved a lot by now...

I wonder what do they mean by
Quote:

We conducted several tests to determine if a human was present at the controls while Quicktob.exe was running. These tests would have gone unnoticed by a human player, but would have confused an automated software player, rendering it unable to continue playing.

Tweaking layout in real time? Some invisible layer over poker tables, which bot picked up? Switching button places?

Statistics: Posted by eugen — Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:45 pm


]]>
2013-04-10T14:51:15+00:00 2013-04-10T14:51:15+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3764#p3764 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]>
Quote:

Hello XXX,

Because we have been unable to reach you by telephone despite several attempts to do so, we will conduct the interview by Email.

We believe that you may have been developing and using a prohibited application in conjunction with your play on PokerStars. To help us make a determination about this, please answer the following questions.

1. Please detail your relationship with player 'Player'. Name the player by full name if you can, and describe how you know the player in detail.

2. Please detail your relationship with player ‘Player2'. Name the player by full name if you can, and describe how you know the player in detail.

3. Before your account shutdown, we noted that you suddenly "stepped down" from your normal high stakes [My preferred game Full Ring] to play lower stakes [My preferred game Heads Up]. What was the impetus for this change in your game selection?

4. You seem to have used two different machines for your play, one machine for high stakes full ring, and a different machine for your low stakes heads up play. Why was this?

5. One of the machines in question, the one used to play the heads up games, was a Virtual Machine. Why did you find it necessary to use a virtual machine for your heads up play, but not your high stakes play?

6. The playing profile for each of the game selections was rather distinctive and consistent, yet they differed from each other. For example, your reaction time in the heads up games was very fast and very consistent, while your full ring game you played slower and with more variance in your action times. Your tables were of varying sizes and positions when you played high stakes, but were meticulously sized and positioned the same way every time for heads up. Can you explain these differences?

7. You stopped playing low stakes heads up Razz on [A nice summer day]. Why did you stop? What happened to the virtual machine you were using after that date?

8. You were observed using several unusual applications, predominantly during your heads up low stakes play. Please explain your reason for the use of each of the following:

TeamViewer
Camtasia Studio
Embarcadero RAD Studio

TeamViewer continued to be used beyond October 12th. Whose machine were you remote-controlling, and/or who was remote-controlling you?

9. Who is [My Real name]? What is the meaning of [2 friends]?

10. The following application was observed on your machine:

c:\users\[blub]\desktop\8.5 - ps\debug\win32\icq.exe

It carried several version numbers, and varied in file size. What is the purpose of this file? Did you supply a copy of this program to any other player? What is the meaning of its name, ICQ? Would you be willing to supply a copy of the executable, and a copy of the source code that we could compile ourselves, in order to verify the purpose of this application?

-> At this point I am sure they copied the files that stupid fckers


11. We conducted several tests to determine if a human was present at the controls while Quicktob.exe was running. These tests would have gone unnoticed by a human player, but would have confused an automated software player, rendering it unable to continue playing. These tests were failed multiple times at low stakes heads up, but passed during high stakes play. Please explain.

Thank you for your cooperation in answering these questions.

Sincerely,

Statistics: Posted by Blub478 — Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:51 pm


]]>
2013-04-10T14:50:11+00:00 2013-04-10T14:50:11+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3763#p3763 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> I think I used human mouse movements and maybe a virtual machine even though I'm not sure about that

Statistics: Posted by Blub478 — Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:50 pm


]]>
2013-04-10T14:25:54+00:00 2013-04-10T14:25:54+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3762#p3762 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> Statistics: Posted by eugen — Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:25 pm


]]>
2013-04-10T11:44:35+00:00 2013-04-10T11:44:35+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3757#p3757 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> since 3 months i am botting on ftp now and yesterday i started bringing it to ps again.
even though im not comfortable with the feeling.

Statistics: Posted by Blub478 — Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:44 am


]]>
2013-04-10T11:40:50+00:00 2013-04-10T11:40:50+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3756#p3756 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> Statistics: Posted by eugen — Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:40 am


]]>
2013-04-10T11:12:54+00:00 2013-04-10T11:12:54+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3754#p3754 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> 3 years ago I started my first attempts to bot on stars - busted.
They sent me quite a long email and statement why they froze my account.
They checked my whole computer - now I learned out of my first mistakes.
In case you are intrested, I can see if I still find this old email :)

Statistics: Posted by Blub478 — Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:12 am


]]>
2013-04-10T06:06:00+00:00 2013-04-10T06:06:00+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3745#p3745 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> Don't want it all to go to waste because I overlooked some small stupid thing.

Statistics: Posted by eugen — Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:06 am


]]>
2013-04-10T00:21:30+00:00 2013-04-10T00:21:30+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3737#p3737 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> eugen wrote:

i.e. if I rename bring.exe to skype.exe, will they know it's not skype?

They likely have a hash for bring because it's commonly used for botting. I'd be more concerned about them watching for some of the functions bring performs. i.e. screen captures, opening certain ports, etc. The bottom line is: can your program solve a captcha?

Statistics: Posted by cantina — Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:21 am


]]>
2013-04-09T23:09:18+00:00 2013-04-09T23:09:18+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3736#p3736 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> Statistics: Posted by proud2bBot — Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:09 pm


]]>
2013-04-09T19:29:11+00:00 2013-04-09T19:29:11+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3733#p3733 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> Statistics: Posted by eugen — Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:29 pm


]]>
2013-04-09T19:20:22+00:00 2013-04-09T19:20:22+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3732#p3732 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> Statistics: Posted by proud2bBot — Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:20 pm


]]>
2013-04-09T18:47:42+00:00 2013-04-09T18:47:42+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3731#p3731 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> i.e. if I rename bring.exe to skype.exe, will they know it's not skype?

Statistics: Posted by eugen — Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:47 pm


]]>
2013-04-09T17:06:23+00:00 2013-04-09T17:06:23+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3730#p3730 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]>
I program in java.. but havent found my application in task manager processes. The only thing that appears is the javaw.exe. Surely they could not flag me because of that.

+ I've also seen people reporting about too stable stats, there were some threads about it in 2p2
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/153/h ... r-1305478/

Statistics: Posted by xMKx — Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:06 pm


]]>
2013-04-07T21:36:56+00:00 2013-04-07T21:36:56+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3709#p3709 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> Statistics: Posted by Blub478 — Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:36 pm


]]>
2013-04-04T16:30:49+00:00 2013-04-04T16:30:49+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3642#p3642 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> Statistics: Posted by cantina — Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:30 pm


]]>
2013-04-04T16:24:04+00:00 2013-04-04T16:24:04+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3638#p3638 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> Statistics: Posted by Coffee4tw — Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:24 pm


]]>
2013-04-03T07:43:23+00:00 2013-04-03T07:43:23+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3632#p3632 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> This isn't a huge flag on its own, but will work against you if you have other tells like 24/7 play.

Statistics: Posted by eugen — Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:43 am


]]>
2013-04-03T04:26:08+00:00 2013-04-03T04:26:08+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3629#p3629 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]>
Is there any way Stars can scan my processes from a VM? Or make a screenshot of my main system? I have read, that stars has a very tight security, so I am kinda paranoid.

Statistics: Posted by HontoNiBaka — Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:26 am


]]>
2013-04-03T00:43:37+00:00 2013-04-03T00:43:37+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3627#p3627 <![CDATA[Re: Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> Statistics: Posted by cantina — Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:43 am


]]>
2013-04-03T00:34:02+00:00 2013-04-03T00:34:02+00:00 http://poker-ai.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2435&p=3626#p3626 <![CDATA[Would this be safe enough for Stars?]]> Statistics: Posted by HontoNiBaka — Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:34 am


]]>