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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:33 pm 
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Imagine we're on the turn, we have the concept of an IP player and an OOP player. And the different ranges for them. Let's assume IP player's range is stronger on the turn.

An OOP AI that doesn't know position would still realise that donking is bad, right? Because it would bet and get raised by the stronger range a lot.

But would the donk % be very low like <2% or a much higher value like %20?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:07 pm 
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In poker it makes sense to donk with some hands. E.g. hands that are strong enough to donk turn, bet river, but not strong enough to raise turn bet river. So if a donk range is polarized, IP player can't raise many combos, because he can raise only strongest hands for value.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:37 pm 
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mlatinjo wrote:
In poker it makes sense to donk with some hands. E.g. hands that are strong enough to donk turn, bet river, but not strong enough to raise turn bet river. So if a donk range is polarized, IP player can't raise many combos, because he can raise only strongest hands for value.


So if we let a strategy converge as best we can to the nash equlibrium, then this strategy will have a donking %. Understood. I suppose my question was bad because it didn't assume people donk polarized ranges already (I see this as uncommon)

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:46 am 
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Not only polarized. Also donk pairs that need protection. Anyway those go mostly in bet / fold range. If you bet strong hands and some solid draws and some hands that need protection, then you cna defend draws + strong hands vs raise and fold hands that need protection.
Did you ever look at solver programs? Like e.g. pio solver? It would answer your question / questions regarding optimal strategy


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:48 pm 
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mlatinjo wrote:
Not only polarized. Also donk pairs that need protection. Anyway those go mostly in bet / fold range. If you bet strong hands and some solid draws and some hands that need protection, then you cna defend draws + strong hands vs raise and fold hands that need protection.
Did you ever look at solver programs? Like e.g. pio solver? It would answer your question / questions regarding optimal strategy

I'm of course familiar with pio but I don't have the program myself. I suppose my main mistake was conflating GTO play and winning online poker play. That's why I thought these small % polarized donk ranges are uncommon, because I base it on population tendencies and what I've seen players (+streamers,coaches) do.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:17 pm 
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You are right, mayority of the players never donk in HU spot. But it doesn't mean that it is wrong to donk. The reason is probably because several years ago it was considered that donking is totally bad play because guy with initative would cbet almost always so why donk with value hand doesn't make sense. Today, regulars don't cbet that bluff heavy, take care about being more balanced, so they are not going to cbet that often, which increases the EV of donking with value and bluffs.


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