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 Post subject: Detection of pokerbots
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:39 pm 
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Hello guys.

I've been playing poker with succes for many years, but I'm quite new to the challenge of developing pokerbots - al though my ongoing project in this field is going pretty well.

I guess this topic has already been discussed plenty of times, but I would appreciate if someone could fill me in on this topic or redirect me to a different source or thread. I have close to zero knowledge about this.

My concerns are as follows:

1) Which large poker sites are actively fighting pokerbots? Are there some who allows or don't care about pokerbots?
2) I sense that PokerStars' is probably the most dedicated on fighting AI tools - but what do I need to worry about?
- hours of playing, mouse movements, placement of clicks, randomization of strategies? what else?
3) Are there pokerbots at husngs on PokerStars that is not detected? I mean, is it even possible?
4) If they close my account, what are my options? Change my IP and use a friends account - is that all?

Please feel free to send me a private message if you prefer that.

Thanks,
Boris


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:16 pm 
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I will give an advice you probably already read many times but you really should listen to it...
Before you start worry about stealth or anything like that... just create the script for the AI before anything else.
Then load it into openholdem and then run it on any small pokersite, they don't care about bots.

Once you have a winning script, then you can start to work on stealth so that you can move the bot to pokerstars instead. But tbh, I think it's fine to just stick to small pokersites too.. you'll make so much money anyway... there are a lot of small pokersites you can run it on all at the same time.

So just get right into the fun part of writing the script.
Here's an example of a script that you can learn from:
https://github.com/OpenHoldem/openholde ... StephH.txt

I also didn't listen to the advice about ignoring stealth in the beginning but I finally understood it's really the best approach :D
Also, yes, there are bots at husngs on pokerstars, I've played against at least one.. the monthly volume it had at micro husng was just inhuman.. too obvious that it was a bot.. every month.. and never moving up either.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:32 pm 
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Thanks for your reply!

I've actually already made the script and tested it with succes, but unfortunately I haven't been careful enough and therefore I have reached these concerns ;)

What is openholdem and what exactly do you mean by "stealth"? :)

I guess one of my mistakes is that I've created my script singlehanded, which obviously means that I've been missing a lot of optimization and been through unnecessary hard work. On the other hand I hope it might have helped me creating a strategy and methods that is unique and possible giving me an edge in some points. In any ways it has been very fun and instructive process despite of the hard work :)

If I want to move to PokerStars. What are my precausions?

It surprises me, if there is pokerbots on PokerStars which play unrealstically many games, since this should be one of the first criterion for being detected. Do you have a concrete example?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:38 am 
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Here's a link to openholdem: https://code.google.com/archive/p/openholdembot/
It's a framework to build your own bot.

Stealth means making your bot undetected.

Have you done anything to make your bot undetected?

You really should just search this forum for ways to make it undetected because there's many threads about it already.

The bot I played against was some years ago, maybe 4-5 years ago. I haven't played husng's since then... and it's not because of the bot I stopped.. I really was just interested in husngs and wanted to try it out and also to improve my hu skills which is good to have for MTTs.
But yeah, good question why PS didn't detect it. I can't remember what volume of sngs it was playing every month but I remember it was making on average about $700 profit playing $1.5 hyper husng every month and never moving up.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:05 am 
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I've read a lot of threads in this forum and other sources, but it is quite difficult to get an overview. So far it seems to be close to impossible (ofc nothing is) to avoid being detected on PokerStars, and indeed considering my lack of it-knowledge.

No, I haven't really done anything to avoid detection besides limiting my hours of playing and adjusting time of actions and variying strategies. I did not realize that sites could actually analyze how you use your curser and how you screen scrap etc.

Do you know how advanced the detection is on other large networks?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:21 pm 
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I don't know, I haven't read too much into that because I'm still writing my bot's AI.
But many here are saying that they simply just use a VM to avoid detection on smaller sites incl ipoker.

From Openholdem manual:

"IPoker, Bovada/Bodog, 888: supported by Shanky Bonusbots. Lots of people botting there naked without any stealth and insane “human-like” hours. But be careful. Even a bot-friendly site like 888 will ban you if you play 450 SNG each day like one of our users did recently."

"OnGame: we once knew a guy who ran a farm there, 55 acounts, NL 10 SSS, singletabling (because his hopper was not able to run more than one table), playing all accounts naked round the clock. It took six weeks until he got busted."


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:40 pm 
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Hey again.

I still don't get what the sites are actually able to detect. Are they really able to see my screen and all my movements/user inputs and my other running programs? It seems a bit absurd and a violation of privacy.
But if that is the case I guess they only investigate you if you play a lot, right?
Is a virtual machine really necessary if you do nothing but screen scraping?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:42 am 
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Boris wrote:
Hey again.

I still don't get what the sites are actually able to detect. Are they really able to see my screen and all my movements/user inputs and my other running programs? It seems a bit absurd and a violation of privacy.
But if that is the case I guess they only investigate you if you play a lot, right?
Is a virtual machine really necessary if you do nothing but screen scraping?


It's technically possible to detect nearly anything on the casino machine. If you want 100% certainty about what they actually look at you need to reverse engineer the client. You sign away your right to privacy. I know for a fact that years ago Party took screen shots and looked at your browsing history. Talking of absurdity, Stars are known to send company representatives to your house to observe you play.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:31 pm 
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spears wrote:
Boris wrote:
Hey again.

I still don't get what the sites are actually able to detect. Are they really able to see my screen and all my movements/user inputs and my other running programs? It seems a bit absurd and a violation of privacy.
But if that is the case I guess they only investigate you if you play a lot, right?
Is a virtual machine really necessary if you do nothing but screen scraping?


It's technically possible to detect nearly anything on the casino machine. If you want 100% certainty about what they actually look at you need to reverse engineer the client. You sign away your right to privacy. I know for a fact that years ago Party took screen shots and looked at your browsing history. Talking of absurdity, Stars are known to send company representatives to your house to observe you play.


Even reverse enginering wont give you even close to 100% of detection factors. Keep in mind that there are people looking for suspicious things manually.. My opinion is : if you are flagged as potential bot then RIP. They will investigate manually and detect if for sure (from my experiences)


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:09 am 
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f4s4h wrote:
Even reverse enginering wont give you even close to 100% of detection factors.
I didn't say it did.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:25 pm 
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"It's technically possible to detect nearly anything on the casino machine. If you want 100% certainty about what they actually look at you need to reverse engineer the client"

Maybe I misunderstood You because of my poor english. Sorry :)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:02 pm 
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f4s4h wrote:
Even reverse enginering wont give you even close to 100% of detection factors. Keep in mind that there are people looking for suspicious things manually.. My opinion is : if you are flagged as potential bot then RIP. They will investigate manually and detect if for sure (from my experiences)


Hi,

How can you actually know from your experiences that if casino guys investigate manually that they are going to detect your bot? I mean how can you even know that they are having manual investigation? I think that it is all based on assumption and logic, it might be true but maybe not.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:17 am 
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mlatinjo wrote:
How can you actually know from your experiences that if casino guys investigate manually that they are going to detect your bot? I mean how can you even know that they are having manual investigation? I think that it is all based on assumption and logic, it might be true but maybe not.


There have been accounts of people being investigated. Now you could argue that those accounts are fabrications, but then you will begin sound like a flat earth crank, and are liable to be banned.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:39 am 
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spears wrote:
mlatinjo wrote:
How can you actually know from your experiences that if casino guys investigate manually that they are going to detect your bot? I mean how can you even know that they are having manual investigation? I think that it is all based on assumption and logic, it might be true but maybe not.


There have been accounts of people being investigated. Now you could argue that those accounts are fabrications, but then you will begin sound like a flat earth crank, and are liable to be banned.


Ok, i never played on stars with bot so i don't know. I have played on party, 888 and ipoker and if you are suspicious they simply block your account and keep the funds, they don't need a proof that you used a bot. So i thought that it is the same on stars.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:36 pm 
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888 is now aggressively hunting for and banning botters so don't keep much money in your account if you bot there.

Honestly, the only way the avoid detection is if the site doesn't hunt for you. Bot at tolerant sites (bottom line).

_________________
The original & industry leading Holdem Poker Bot since 2007.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 4:13 pm 
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I met with the same problem, but I didn't know how to fix it, so I decided to find another place for gambling and I did it. Anticipating your dismay, I'll say, that the gambling doesn't always ruin everything. I know many cases when people have made huge amounts of money and invested in business or in the house/car. And now I live quite well. Sincerely to be, I'm still playing poker, because I found one of the most trusted online casino score88poker. I don't feel addicted to gambling. Plus, I also make a lot of money on it.
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You can check it too - https://www.score88poker.bid.


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