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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:49 pm 
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Poker-ai should not only be the site for geeks. I think this should be a platform for investors, affiliates, bonus hunters and all who want to make money using gambling bot.

My view from the outside: "Without these people you (botters) will earn 2 times less."

I am waiting for them here.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:07 am 
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I'm not so sure.
Happy for them to come, but becoming dealing with money anonymously online is a tricky business.
Looking at the few offers the forum has seen in the past, i'm not even sure if any have had success...

It could be simply that once someone has a winning bot, they probably won't want to share it after the work they've put in.
This also seems kind of valid, since a lot of the bots in the marketplace are untested or unfinished.

Who knows though, it could change with one offer.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:41 am 
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Exactly! Why do you need a forum, if you have a winning bot? What percentage of the audience has a winning bot? Many people need to cooperate.

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Happy for them to come, but becoming dealing with money anonymously online is a tricky business.

Fraudsters need a big community. I do not think anyone is offered cooperation to further deception. Yes, maybe someone overestimated their capabilities, but it's not a cheating.

Quote:
Looking at the few offers the forum has seen in the past, i'm not even sure if any have had success...

Yes, probably you are right, but it's not because of trust issues anonymous guys on the internet.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:42 am 
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Personally, and I believe I am speaking for spears here too, we wanted to keep this forum open to discuss AI and approaches to solving poker or rather creating strong poker bots.
I don't mind if people come on here that are more concerned about the money and business side of things but I certainly don't wantto make it the focus.

The focus is and will be poker and AI research for poker.

It's certainly less attractive for winning poker botters to share details about their setup but sharing details about their strategy and how they came up with it doesn't really hurt them. Of course they might not see value in that and nobody can force them but I think there already are (and were in the past) very smart and succesful people on here that openly discuss(ed) their ideas.

Ideally I'd want to get all the big researchers from academia on here to share ideas but there are probably issues with that since there is a race to publish papers on ideas so they tend to keep them to themselves. However, I know that they are already sharing ideas with eachother on occasion so I'm hoping to bring them together here.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:01 pm 
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Coffee4tw wrote:
a race to publish papers on ideas

Can you give me more details? I don't know anything about it.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:07 pm 
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Coffee4tw wrote:
Personally, and I believe I am speaking for spears here too, we wanted to keep this forum open to discuss AI and approaches to solving poker or rather creating strong poker bots.
I don't mind if people come on here that are more concerned about the money and business side of things but I certainly don't wantto make it the focus.

The focus is and will be poker and AI research for poker.

It's certainly less attractive for winning poker botters to share details about their setup but sharing details about their strategy and how they came up with it doesn't really hurt them. Of course they might not see value in that and nobody can force them but I think there already are (and were in the past) very smart and succesful people on here that openly discuss(ed) their ideas.

Ideally I'd want to get all the big researchers from academia on here to share ideas but there are probably issues with that since there is a race to publish papers on ideas so they tend to keep them to themselves. However, I know that they are already sharing ideas with eachother on occasion so I'm hoping to bring them together here.


I agree. I think that poker-ai.org should be a solid research forum, while all money making related topics goes somewhere else (perhaps a separate forum).


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:13 pm 
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I don't see the problem tbh. PokerAI is and always was a place to discuss poker ai related topics. There is a market place, which can be used for offers/requests, so I don't see what exactly should change? The reason the market place might not have a ton of traffic is probably more a trust issue (personally, I think there are smarter ways to find collaborators than getting random people in a forum).


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:45 pm 
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proud2bBot wrote:
I don't see the problem tbh

Me neither. This is a non-issue and nothing is going to change in terms of structure etc.

flop+2cards wrote:
Can you give me more details? I don't know anything about it.

As with anything in life, if you have a great idea you won't tell anybody about it because they might steal it. Whether this is a business idea, a random money-making scheme or a research idea, people want to protect their IP.
In academia it's the same, if you have an idea that you think is worthy for publishing a paper on, it's unlikely that you'll discuss it with someone outside of your research group in fear of them taking the idea and writing their own paper and claiming all the credit before you did. This is basically a "race-to-market" issue if you want to look at it in economic terms. Whoever gets their first, wins.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:59 pm 
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Is there a cash prize for the perfect poker AI? Do I understand you correctly? How much?

Are there any rules? 5 card draw have 2 betting rounds. I think to create the perfect AI for this game is easier than for TH. Would this be considered? Choose a simple game, if you want to be the first.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:19 pm 
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Huh? No there is no prize. The race I was talking about is for academic recognition only.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:10 am 
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I've just read a couple of threads, and all I see is flop+2cards talking about business, investment, credit card fraud and identity fraud...

I don't think I'm speaking out of line here in saying:
flop+2cards - I think you're completely missing the point of the forum. You are not "The target audience of the site".


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:03 pm 
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OneDayItllWork wrote:
I think you're completely missing the point of the forum. You are not "The target audience of the site".

Let me explain why I'm here.

Yeah, I don't know nothing about programming. I hired people to do this. I started using poker bot in September 2010 and finished in January 2013. I did not know anything about this community and I came to see it.


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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 12:58 am 
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I thought you were a bonus hunter, not really a botter?

I generally agree with OneDayItllWork though. Feel free to stick around and express your ideas but the target audience and target topics is, as mentioned, poker AI research.

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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 11:14 am 
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Who is Botter? The one who create a bot or the one who used a bot.

Coffee4tw wrote:
Feel free to stick around and express your ideas

I have no idea. If I tried to create an AI, I have intensively studied the game of Sifosis. Sifosis has the strongest balance with the words one top regs to play against him. He uses six strategies. He has switches between the strategies depending on the opponent. He never changes his game and he is sick multitabler player. Probably the information is worthless.

I do not like your desire to be first. Being first with nothing more is stupid to me. Ok, you're the first. What's next?


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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 11:10 am 
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flop+2cards wrote:
Who is Botter? The one who create a bot or the one who used a bot.

I guess the person who creates the bot..

Coffee4tw wrote:
Feel free to stick around and express your ideas

I'm not sure he meant your AI ideas, more saying that you're welcome to stick around and share any ideas relating to what you want to talk about?

flop+2cards wrote:
I do not like your desire to be first. Being first with nothing more is stupid to me. Ok, you're the first. What's next?

In academia, that's generally how things work. People strive to do the best research, release their ideas and people work on those ideas.
It's not a race that will finish any time soon, it's continuous advancements.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:26 am 
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Quote:
In academia, that's generally how things work. People strive to do the best research, release their ideas and people work on those ideas.
It's not a race that will finish any time soon, it's continuous advancements.


Well it is not simply about being first. If a Professor publishes many good papers, he is more likely to keep his job and get new grants from government to continue his research. I think that this is the reason why researchers are not sharing ideas before they publish them.
And there are better places to discuss about scientific approaches in poker AI than this forum. I think that this forum is actually more for botters who want to make money with bots, and not contribute to science. At least that is what I conclude from reading the topics.


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