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 Post subject: Opponents limps or raises
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:10 am 
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Hello. Why bet fields in SNGEGT are disabled (not active)? Is it possible to specify the opponents limps or raises in SNGEGT like in SnG Wizard?


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 Post subject: Re: Opponents limps or raises
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:01 am 
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Nobody in this forum developed SNGEGT and it is not an official support forum. Unfortunately you are going to have to dig into the code and find out for yourself. It would be appreciated if you could then post the answer though, if you do find it.

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 Post subject: Re: Opponents limps or raises
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:02 am 
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Bet fields are disabled because SNGEGT can't handle limpers.
If you open push, SNGEGT can calculate your equity giving a calling range to your opponents with NE or with the one you give them.
For a limper, things get harder because he might limp with medium strength hand and call shove with the top of this range or limp with premium hands and call 100% of the time to trap.


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 Post subject: Re: Opponents limps or raises
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:41 am 
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So if I see limper or raiser should I ignore their bets in SNGEGT? It is correct for EVDiff calculations? Btw, I'm going to use default opponents models/ranges from Sng Wizard in my bot.
PS. Maybe someone knows is there a way to integrate SNG Wizard in my bot, something like SNGEGT Java port?


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 Post subject: Re: Opponents limps or raises
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:35 am 
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Well you can ignore them but there will be a big bias of course...
I don't think there is an easy way to integrate SNG Wizard.
You can reverse engineer it if you have the skills needed or you can use a big database to create your own opponents models/ranges.


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 Post subject: Re: Opponents limps or raises
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:13 am 
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LOLWorld wrote:
Well you can ignore them but there will be a big bias of course...

ok, i'll try this way...
Quote:
I don't think there is an easy way to integrate SNG Wizard.
You can reverse engineer it if you have the skills needed or you can use a big database to create your own opponents models/ranges.

database with opponents ranges isn't a problem, i have made file based on opps models from SngWiz:
Code:
...
;***Loosemodel-5pl-BB
L_5plBBRaise, 100, 100, 62, 32, 21
L_5plBBPush, 90, 79, 49, 24, 16
L_5plBBCall, 69, 58, 29, 15, 9.7
;***Loosemodel-6pl+-EP
L_6plEPLimp, 100, 76, 46, 23, 15
L_6plEPRaise, 100, 100, 30, 15, 10
L_6plEPPush, 61, 46, 23, 12, 7.7
L_6plEPCall, 37, 28, 14, 7, 4.6
;***Loosemodel-6pl+-BU
L_6plBULimp, 100, 88, 58, 29, 19
L_6plBURaise, 100, 100, 37, 19, 12
L_6plBUPush, 68, 58, 29, 14, 9.6
L_6plBUCall, 46, 35, 17, 8.6, 5.8
;***Loosemodel-6pl+-SB
L_6plSBLimp, 100, 90, 65, 35, 23
L_6plSBRaise, 100, 100, 45, 22, 15
L_6plSBPush, 76, 65, 35, 17, 12
L_6plSBCall, 55, 42, 21, 10, 7
...

each line in it specify opp ranges witch depends on Opp model, Players in hand, Opp position, Opp action and Opp eff. stack.
A huge Sng Wizard plus vs SNGEGT is that it takes into account opponents over push and limpers/raisers bets in the calculations!


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 Post subject: Re: Opponents limps or raises
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:01 am 
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Coffee4tw wrote:
Nobody in this forum developed SNGEGT and it is not an official support forum.
...

This page is listed on the http://code.google.com/p/sngegt/ as a discussion and development forum for SNGEGT.

Lets look at an example. I want to calculate the following situation in SNGEGT.
Image
How can i do this?
Image
1. Well, I ignore limper and caller bets! I think it will make serious error in the decision...
2. Is it right that I add all players or i should add only those who play/don't fold?
3. Why I can't set a position for "myself" (BB)?


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 Post subject: Re: Opponents limps or raises
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:15 am 
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you can't set your position to BB as you have chosen "Push" action instead of "Call".

SNGEGT does not support limpers, therefore for BB there is no option to "Push", you should only be able to call.

in your example you can consider the limpers actually pushing allin as they have committed most of their chips. Therefore choose your action as Call. Another problem with SNGEGT is that it only supports one push before calling so you must only choose the first player as pusher.


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 Post subject: Re: Opponents limps or raises
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:11 pm 
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quentince wrote:
you can't set your position to BB as you have chosen "Push" action instead of "Call".

SNGEGT does not support limpers, therefore for BB there is no option to "Push", you should only be able to call.

in your example you can consider the limpers actually pushing allin as they have committed most of their chips. Therefore choose your action as Call. Another problem with SNGEGT is that it only supports one push before calling so you must only choose the first player as pusher.

However, many limitations. Obtained in my example, I have to take the player who limp ("Ray Zure") 800 as pusher with bet = 2845? Am i right?


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 Post subject: Re: Opponents limps or raises
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:04 pm 
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I think you really have to understand ICM and Push/Fold scenarios.
Here is link that might help you :

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/36/stt-strategy/icm-101-calling-shoves-1k-post-227022/

Those situations were not treated by SNGEGT because there are not trivial.
You can consider limpers putting, let say 1/5 of there stack as all-in but sometimes you're wrong because there are idiots limping 80% of their hands and folding 50% vs all-in even if they are commited.
That's why you need opponent models to know their behavior.


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