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 Post subject: Re: Is online poker rigged, to keep all players happy to get xt
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:43 pm 
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newbee wrote:
I know it's illegal in Holland and Germany and France, I assume it won't be different in the rest of the at least west european country's.

Ok, thanks.
But in the european union it seems the interests are different:

In 2003, the European Court of Justice confirmed that gambling was a service that fell under the EU's articles to Freedom of Establishment and Freedom to Provide Services. Under the EU treaty, a member state must allow other European Union member states the same right to provide online gaming services as the member country allows its owned state-owned monopolies. In its recent decision, the European Commission threatened legal action by its European Court of Justice should France not change its laws concerning foreign-based gambling advertising. France rejected the EU's counsel, declaring they were ready to defend their policies in the EU's highest court.


http://www.internet-poker.co.uk/Poker-N ... s~451.html


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 Post subject: Re: Is online poker rigged, to keep all players happy to get xt
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:58 pm 
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newbee wrote:
I know it's illegal in Holland and Germany and France, I assume it won't be different in the rest of the at least west european country's.


Here is England & Wales law database. Please show me where it says internet poker is illegal.


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 Post subject: Re: Is online poker rigged, to keep all players happy to get xt
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:10 pm 
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It should be illegal for those uncontrolled offshore company's, if we can't get a license in Holland then why allow others. And because it's not possible to get a license it's in my eye's illegal.


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 Post subject: Re: Is online poker rigged, to keep all players happy to get xt
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:37 pm 
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spears wrote:
newbee wrote:
I know it's illegal in Holland and Germany and France, I assume it won't be different in the rest of the at least west european country's.


Here is England & Wales law database. Please show me where it says internet poker is illegal.

Internet poker isn't illegal in any Scandinavian country either (Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland or Iceland). Assuming the whole Europe would have the same laws is as wrong as thinking that USA, Canada, Mexico and Cuba would have the same laws...

To go back on the topic. Since we have quite som hand histories in the Hand History Exchange we could get us some numbers on the rate on which each hand has been dealt. My work takes up all my time at the moment but I will look into this when I get the time.


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 Post subject: Re: Is online poker rigged, to keep all players happy to get xt
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:54 pm 
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If you really go look then you must look for hands where Hero is 80 - 90 % favourite and see how much % of time he loose that pot. Should be 10-15% then, but when you goo look you will see that it 's way more then that 10-15% when he go's allin, thats the most important factor. So preflop and postflop allins, the rest doesnt matter.


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 Post subject: Re: Is online poker rigged, to keep all players happy to get xt
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:51 pm 
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newbee wrote:
I meant to say 90-95% of all players are loosers and thats why lot of sites can easily give out 10-20% unrigged accounts so they can spread the good word.

Hi,

This idea is interesting - ie that the sites don't rig the games for everyone - they selectively rig for some people only.

You don't propose what criteria the sites might use to decide who gets rigged and who doesn't - but I have a suggestion.

Maybe the sites work out who the stupid/gullible people are and only rig those ones. They know that if they rigged the smart people then the forums would be full of convincing statistical analysis proving beyond doubt the existence of rigging. They know that the stupid/gullible people are never going to be able to come up with better than a few anecdotes about how ridiculous it was the number of times they got sucked out on - which nobody is going to take seriously.

Think about it - when was the last time you heard someone really smart ranting on about online poker being rigged? Chris Ferguson? Stephen Hawking? Nobel prize winners? I can't think of any. The sites are avoiding rigging all those people.... However when was the last time you heard someone who was clearly a bit of an idiot ranting about it all being rigged? All the time!

The answer is clear - online poker is in fact rigged - but only for the stupid and gullible people.

At last - a coherent theory about rigging that fits all the observable evidence!

- PeppaPig

p.s. please dont take offense if it seems to you like you have been the victim of rigging. I'm not calling you an idiot - I'm just suggesting a theory that seems to fit the facts :).


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 Post subject: Re: Is online poker rigged, to keep all players happy to get xt
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:39 pm 
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PeppaPig wrote:
However when was the last time you heard someone who was clearly a bit of an idiot ranting about it all being rigged? All the time!

The answer is clear - online poker is in fact rigged - but only for the stupid and gullible people.
PeppaPig, that's absolutely brilliant! Now I just need to figure a way for my bot to constantly fail the casinos' passive IQ test and I'm set for life.

But wait... how do I know if it'll be rigged in my favor or not? In fact, when was the last time you heard about anyone ranting about how unfair it is because they always make their suck outs?


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 Post subject: Re: Is online poker rigged, to keep all players happy to get xt
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:02 pm 
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Lol, probably you guys don't have much live experience in poker so not much to compare it to. Go play a year in a casino every day and lets talk again then yes?


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 Post subject: Re: Is online poker rigged, to keep all players happy to get xt
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:34 pm 
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newbee wrote:
Lol, probably you guys don't have much live experience in poker so not much to compare it to. Go play a year in a casino every day and lets talk again then yes?
Play live for a year? At best - if you got say 25 hands/hr live - 12 hrs a day - you could do about 100k hands max. Thats not nearly enough to prove anything I'm afraid...

Do you claim that the distribution of cards or bad beats is different in live games to online games?

I'm very confident that these things are completely as expected by probability in online games. I've proven this to myself by actually doing the rigorous analysis over a large sample of hands - so I know the online game isn't rigged in this way - at least not for me (apparently the sites dont think I'm an idiot!). If the live game showed anything different to this it could only show that the live game was rigged.

- PeppaPig


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 Post subject: Re: Is online poker rigged, to keep all players happy to get xt
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:59 pm 
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I rather trust the dealer who I see shuffel and deal the cards then some offshore company with computer stuff if you don't mind. I play profitable, but it should be way more profitable if the beats didn't occur 50% of the time when I am 80% favourite or better and I go allin. I'm keeping track of all the preflop and postflop allins where I am the favourite, the sample will get bigger and bigger by time and then it's proof enough. But hey, then the people say, yeah you probably left out the hands where it went good. Always like that.


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 Post subject: Re: Is online poker rigged, to keep all players happy to get xt
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:12 am 
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newbee wrote:
I rather trust the dealer who I see shuffel and deal the cards then some offshore company with computer stuff if you don't mind. I play profitable, but it should be way more profitable if the beats didn't occur 50% of the time when I am 80% favourite or better and I go allin. I'm keeping track of all the preflop and postflop allins where I am the favourite, the sample will get bigger and bigger by time and then it's proof enough. But hey, then the people say, yeah you probably left out the hands where it went good. Always like that.

OK, how about putting your money behind your words if you believe in this no sense?
Here is the proposition:
* You select the poker site of your choice
* We play heads up by this rules: We fold all hands, except the ones that I have a big pair, and you have two smaller cards. When I have a pair I say both cards one by one, like KcKd, and you say your two cards also. So, I'll have around 82% equity all the hands in PokerStove EV. Your EV by your words will not be 18%, but it will be 50% because the site is rigged to outdraw. I pay an extra 10% always, by transfer. So for you, you have 60% equity. For me, I have 72% equity. We are both happy.
* We only play hands were I have 80% equity or more, all In pre-flop in these cases. All other hands are a fold pre-flop.


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 Post subject: Re: Is online poker rigged, to keep all players happy to get xt
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:15 am 
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I agree with newbee hes right the odds are so bad its funny to watch,
the one i love seeing the most is where your on the bubble 6 player torney 3 players left and the other 2 players all in one has pair the other ak, oops theres goes the split pot next hand there all in again oops split pot again lol, then me i have pocket queens he has 7s, oh dear im out 772jk oh lol what happended im out ummm huh happends to me time and time again, i come 3rd a lot to this kind of rubbish all the time i would win more money on a real roulette table than these odds these kind of thing happends over and over again when your on a losing streak youll know about coz youll see bad beat after bad beat the worst site ive seen for this is william hill poker and dusk till dawn poker
terrible i call them thiefs like the saying goes house wins.
Heres a little linc a bit funny but very true.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r89tSAxAu0c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lt5lT0PPOQ&feature=related

Next this program works but why the fuc are they allowed our stats its fucing cheating and they are making more fucing money selling our info sharkscope.com does the fucing same have a look
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq2Z7HJx6rY&feature=related


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 Post subject: Re: Is online poker rigged, to keep all players happy to get xt
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:41 am 
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Evilthoutz wrote:
I agree with newbee hes right the odds are so bad its funny to watch,

The proposition is open to you too, and to any one else that think some site is rigged.
I guess you will not take the proposition bet. So please, stop talking trash unless you are ready to back up your words with your money.


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 Post subject: Re: Is online poker rigged, to keep all players happy to get xt
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:41 am 
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You realy believe in what you write don't you? :o

What you guys suffers from is selective memory. The hands where you got the odds on your side and wins gets forgotten since they played out the way they supposed to, but you remember the hands that you lose against the odds.

In online poker it's easy to play 1000 hands a day. And maybe 20 hands of those are hands where an all in situation occurs. If all of those where 80-20 situations then you should lose 4 all-ins as a massive overdog.

In live poker you would only play maybe 200 hands a day. And with the same reasoning then you realise that you won't even expect to get badbeated once a day.

I would love someone to take up Adrians challenge. Be sure to save the logs! ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Is online poker rigged, to keep all players happy to get xt
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:03 pm 
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Ok smart boys give me your poker names so i can check your stats, the only people that defend online poker must 1 work for the sites to protect there name and 2 must not have played much online at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Is online poker rigged, to keep all players happy to get xt
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:51 pm 
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Evilthoutz wrote:
Ok smart boys give me your poker names so i can check your stats
In general you will find that people here aren't too keen to give out their poker account names.

Evilthoutz wrote:
the only people that defend online poker must 1 work for the sites to protect there name
If there is a secret fund where the site pays people to defend them against accusations of rigging then I'm owed a lot of back pay.

Evilthoutz wrote:
and 2 must not have played much online at all.
:P

- PeppaPig


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 Post subject: Re: Is online poker rigged, to keep all players happy to get xt
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:21 pm 
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LOl Hope not :)


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 Post subject: Re: Is online poker rigged, to keep all players happy to get xt
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:42 pm 
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Evilthoutz wrote:
Ok smart boys give me your poker names

Adrian20XX at almost all sites I've played, except Pacific Poker that allows only eight characters, so it is Adrian20. I don't mind posting my screen name, as I said a zillion times I don't bot.
Evilthoutz wrote:
So i can check your stats

First part of Rule number 2 was and is: We play heads up by this rules: We fold all hands, except the ones that I have a big pair, and you have two smaller cards. When I have a pair I say both cards one by one, like KcKd, and you say your two cards also...
Rule number 3 was and is: We only play hands were I have 80% equity or more, all In pre-flop in these cases. All other hands are a fold pre-flop.

I don't know what do you want stats for when you will know my cards and your cards pre-flop in every hand we play, and we'll be all in pre-flop in all the hands he play. But, feel free to check my stats.
Evilthoutz wrote:
The only people that defend online poker must 1 work for the sites to protect there name

Rule number 1 was and is: You select the poker site of your choice.

If you want to, we can split this in five sites of your choice, I certainly do not work for five sites of your choice.
Evilthoutz wrote:
Must not have played much online at all.

Why does it matter to you? I wouldn't mind playing by these rules in my position against any pro player, or your mom, with this rules from my opinion the EV is fixed and not variable.
And from your oppinion too, the EV is fixed and not variable, as there is no decisions after the initial bet, and now decision in the initial bet either.
We just have a difference on which side has the EV+ on this proposition bet, if the side that gets the favorite hand because it is not rigged, or if it is the drawing hand because sites are rigged in favor of the weak side.

Ok, after replying to all your questions, I'll make mines:
1) Where do you want to play?
2) For how much total? (we can split it into multiple confrontations, as long as we comply with the 3 rules).
3) Or are you just speaking because speaking is free?


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 Post subject: Re: Is online poker rigged, to keep all players happy to get xt
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:42 pm 
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Please make this HU happen! :geek:

Just hope they won't unrig Adrian20XXs account now when he outed his name... :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Is online poker rigged, to keep all players happy to get xt
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:35 pm 
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Username Games Played Av. Profit Av. Stake Av. ROI Total Profit Form Network Filter
Adrian20XX 125 -£0 -£3 14% -£39 Tilt PokerStars


Your losing money ic so you must be a very crap poker player or the sites are rigged which one is it mate
Let me know


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