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 Post subject: PokerAI, Tor, Paranoia, and Molasses
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:10 pm 
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First off I'll just say I think the problem is here, but ...

I stumbled across this site recently and although the general forums are generally low in the quantity of discussions, it's been an enlightening experience so far (that's my way of saying thanks, Indiana for putting and keeping this place together).

Being of the paranoid variety, I decided I didn't want to use one of my 'normal' computers for browsing here so I dug an old laptop out from under the desk where's it's been in stasis for a couple of years (Win2K, P3). I put Tor on it and the combination is almost deadly. Browsing pokerai results in minutes per page (no, really and that's not on dialup) with constant auto-logouts (yes, I select the auto-login every time I login which I shouldn't have to do anyways since I selected autologin last time ...). I literally logged in five times to post this message over twenty minutes.

So that's the basic background. What is everybody else doing? Is Tor unnecessary? I don't want to put Tor on one of my 'normal' computers and have to turn it on and off all the time.


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 Post subject: Re: PokerAI, Tor, Paranoia, and Molasses
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:27 pm 
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TOR = very secure, very slow.


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 Post subject: Re: PokerAI, Tor, Paranoia, and Molasses
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:28 pm 
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mercury wrote:
TOR = very secure, very slow.


My experience agrees. Any alternate recommendations or take it as the cost of sleeping well?


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 Post subject: Re: PokerAI, Tor, Paranoia, and Molasses
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:30 pm 
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Personally I trust Indiana not to be giving out our IP addresses, but if you are paranoid I would just use a standard proxy, TOR is way overkill


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 Post subject: Re: PokerAI, Tor, Paranoia, and Molasses
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:45 pm 
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The multiple site disconnect you get could be because you're changing your IP quite frequently with Tor. As a side note, I do get disconnected from time to time though, without any apparent reason that I could think of. I know there's been a couple of threads on that but still can't figure out a precise test case.

I do trust Indiana too. However there's a potential problem with "out of site" images. Avatars can't be hosted outside which is a good thing. But someone inlining an image (like a performance graph) on something else than a very public server (imageshack etc) could be using this to collect IPs from users.


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 Post subject: Re: PokerAI, Tor, Paranoia, and Molasses
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:57 pm 
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I completely trust Indiana, but the site uses third party software so who's to say there isn't an unknown flaw in that. On a bigger note, I don't trust myself. I have three computers on this desk alone and more on a desk a few feet away (and yeah this is home, not an office) so the multi-tasking me is likely to click on an inline link that's a bit too interesting before I think.

On a possibly related note, when I posted the original I put pokerai in the trusted sites (IE) on this old laptop and the speed has apparently increased by about a factor of two or three to only slow. Not a statistically significant sample though. Oh and no further autologouts so far.


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 Post subject: Re: PokerAI, Tor, Paranoia, and Molasses
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:59 pm 
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I don't think you can link images in posts here? The [img] tag is disabled, and I assume HTML is not allowed? So we dont need to worry about Jeff linking an image and going bot hunting with our IPs


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 Post subject: Re: PokerAI, Tor, Paranoia, and Molasses
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:03 pm 
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If you want to have good anonimity, design for that:
- Have a special, separate VMWare for all internet activities.
- Get a http proxy (or VPN, or ssh) - you can get this for as little as 5$ per month, or even less.

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 Post subject: Re: PokerAI, Tor, Paranoia, and Molasses
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:05 pm 
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mercury wrote:
The [img] tag is disabled

My bad, didn't see that.


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 Post subject: Re: PokerAI, Tor, Paranoia, and Molasses
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:19 pm 
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Image-inlining is disabled for all non-Level1 users, and level1 users hould be able to inline images ...

I will consider to disable it altothere (I prefer people to attach images anyway) - but I can't do it right away, as I myself inlined a lot of internal images to pokerai.org.

EDIT: Actually I'm not sure any longer for whom is that disabled, and for whom is it not. I will review that soon.

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 Post subject: Re: PokerAI, Tor, Paranoia, and Molasses
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:46 pm 
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indiana wrote:
I will consider to disable it altothere (I prefer people to attach images anyway)

Maybe if possible just allow a list of hosts for the images (imageshack,etc). Would solve the problem.


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 Post subject: Re: PokerAI, Tor, Paranoia, and Molasses
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:55 pm 
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That will be tough to implement I think. As you can play tricks with the URL, when you type it.

I don't like imageshack because images dissaper after some time, and threads become hard to read. I would really recommend attaching the pics.

FYI - I now allow inlining, but I download, and attach the images when someone inline an image. Which is not a solution, but just to note it.

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 Post subject: Re: PokerAI, Tor, Paranoia, and Molasses
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:59 pm 
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indiana wrote:
FYI - I now allow inlining, but I download, and attach the images when someone inline an image. Which is not a solution, but just to note it.

Sounds good to me. Maybe you could automate the process to save you some time.


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 Post subject: Re: PokerAI, Tor, Paranoia, and Molasses
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:14 am 
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How to speed up TOR


Some advise on how to browse webbpages quicker with TOR.

1 Do not use Internet Explorer, it´s the slowest browser
of them all. Change to a different(faster) browser.

2 In tor´s setup file it's possibly to change several
settings without compromising your security to speed up
things. The setup file is called torrc and can be edited
by a simple text editor suck as notepad.

The following commands do need changing to speed up
things.

CircuitBuildTimeout (default 60 sek)

SocksTimeout (default 120 sek)

If you search the internet you find recommendations to
set these value to 8, 5 or even as low as 3 seconds but
this is not recommended as the lower time you set the
less secure it gets because fever possible circuits can
be created in such short time.

Probably secure(and way faster) settings would be something in the region of: 10-20 sec and 20-40 sec

Ex:

CircuitBuildTimeout 20

SocksTimeout 40

If you don't have these commands in the torrc file just add them there.



/PokerProAnon


Last edited by pokerproanon on Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: PokerAI, Tor, Paranoia, and Molasses
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:20 am 
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More secure browsing with TOR

As for alternate recommendations "for the sake of sleeping well" i would recommend choosing a more secure browser Than IE witch is probably the worst of them.

As an alternative i would not recommend Opera as it "Phones home" once every day and reports every webaddress you visit.

So the choice would become Firefox witch is more secure than the other browsers around.

Also one security issue with TOR. Several Government and organisations are known to be spying on people with servers in the TOR network, you should exclude these servers from the possiblity to be used as nodes in your TOR circuits.

You do this by adding one command in your configuration file torrc:

ExcludeNodes

Some of the more known bad nodes are the nodes on IP's starting with 149.9.x.x(myrnaloy,nixnix,jalopy,croeso,bettyboop), all fast nodes that are often chosen as Circuits. They are located in the Washington DC area and is (probably) operated by the US government.
Some other well known and suspect nodes are (NSAFortMeade,whistlersmother,kyirong,Zulander) witch among other things injecting harmfull code and redirecting people to wrong sites. It's lots more availiable on the subject in the internet.

Example on what you could add to torrc:

ExcludeNodes myrnaloy,nixnix,jalopy,croeso,bettyboop,NSAFortMeade,whistlersmother,kyirong,Zulander


The row above added in torrc would avoid these nodes on all positions in the circuits so you would exclude them as both Entrynodes, Middleman and Exitnodes.

/PokerProAnon


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 Post subject: Re: PokerAI, Tor, Paranoia, and Molasses
PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:21 am 
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Excuse my ignorance, but just by browsing this forums i may be banned from the casino sites ?
I'm currently browsing from my pc and i plan on playing from a VMWare with stealth setup, am i safe or i'm already ip-flagged by the casinos ?

Thanks
Shaw


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 Post subject: Re: PokerAI, Tor, Paranoia, and Molasses
PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:32 am 
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First, I haven't heard of anyone being banned for browsing ot forums. But there has been cases in the past where some casinos employees were brwosing forums, and even collecting IPs (it's much harder for them to do it here, due to the way I setup this forum, but not impossible). If they collect an IP from you, they will rather put some more bot checks on you than ban you.

Second, there has been a case of a guy that was reading codingthewheel.com, who has been warned by PokerStars. If was only warnign thou.

Third, our ToS does not allow casino empoyees to browse this site. If they warn you - I can warn them for browsing my site.

Finally, and most relevant, this forum is not used exclusively by people using poker bots for real money, but also by people interested in poker AI. jukofyork from 2+2 was browsing regularly, we had AdrianXX20 who never bottet but had couple of hundred posts here, we have MBJ (Michael Jochanson) who is the author of some of the best poker papers, we have guys from Cambridge, guys working for Norton anti-virus, Microsoft, etc.

All in all - if you don't bot - don't worry, if you bot - take care!

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 Post subject: Re: PokerAI, Tor, Paranoia, and Molasses
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:41 pm 
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IMO, you should not be playing poker on the same IP/computer you research/build/test bots on. I use VPNs/VMs for any kind of gambling so I never have to worry about my IP being 'flagged' by poker sites for suspicious activity.


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 Post subject: Re: PokerAI, Tor, Paranoia, and Molasses
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:04 pm 
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What about anonymouse.org?

Don't you think it's enough?


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 Post subject: Re: PokerAI, Tor, Paranoia, and Molasses
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:27 pm 
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I hire a room in someone elses appartment and use his internet connection ofcourse which I am allowed too.
Can I still rent a $5,- VPN without affecting his internet connection in any way? I have know idea how this works.


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